Here we go: Eliminate 3 Year Extension Limit for Player w/Less than 5 Years Service

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Here we go: Eliminate 3 Year Extension Limit for Player w/Less than 5 Years Service

Post by jiminyhopkins » Thu Jul 03, 2025 6:39 pm

Caveat: I have no data to back up anything I am about to say. This is merely a suggestion, not a complaint. I am hoping, nay, counting on some of the smarter and more analytical GM's here to either back up or refute this. I am good either way.

Currently there is a limit in the Constitution. You cannot offer an extension (i.e. to a player already in your org) longer than 3 years to a player with less than 5 year service time.

Why was this put in place? (rhetorical question!)

Back in the day, like many versions ago, it was easy to "game" the engine to sort of "trick" young star players into signing well below market deals for up to 6 years. I seem to remember one particular case that rankled everyone and the rule was made. Don't remember the players name tho. In addition, with the way development was handled back then, big phenoms (yes, even IFA guys) were much more likely to fully develop, so you could feel comfortable locking them up very early on.

Well, what has changed?

The game is much better at anticipating future contracts. Look at your salary page, I bet there are players on your 40 man that have a low chance of getting called up, yet they have 5th and 6th year arb numbers in the millions. I think that's why many teams have future payrolls over the cap on their salary page. Of course, if you don't give those guys ML playing time, they will never reach those arb numbers, but the game is acting as if they will.

In addition, when you ask a young player for an extension, they will frequently return with a 6 year contract that seems to reasonably anticipate their future arb numbers as well as the first couple yrs of free agency. Yet we cannot sign them, and they won't typically want just a three year deal. So they go to arb or sign a 1 yr extension. The point is, you can no longer game the system to sign, say, Adrian Tallent to a 6 year, 21 million deal. OOTP simply wont allow it.

In addition, with development and talent changes the way they are now, no player, and I mean NO player is a sure thing. There is so much RNG that you cannot expect nearly anyone to meet their potentials and keep them for years. Players don't automatically become stars, especially IFAs. Which is probably normal, but that's a different discussion.

So why even bring it up? Simple. To reward Risk. What I am saying is, there is so much risk in young prospects now, that a 3 year extension rule is no longer needed. Teams will pay for mistakes or benefit from a smart gamble. And isn't that the point of any game? To reward risk? Let's eliminate a rule that is no longer necessary and allow teams to place bets on young stars. Some will work out, others won't. It sort of mirrors modern MLB, where players I've never even heard of suddenly get 9 figure contracts out of nowhere. A team will either be punished or rewarded for that kind of gamble, and that's the element of risk that makes games fun.

SO that's it. I would like to see some of the resident BBA Nerds (term of endearment) hash this out. Is the 3 year limit still necessary? Or just a relic from the days when the game wasn't so smart? Discuss.



...Oh, and for the haters out there, if you are saying "oh marko only suddenly cares about this because he has a bunch of good young players now" well, you're right. You're absolutely right. :cool:
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Re: Here we go: Eliminate 3 Year Extension Limit for Player w/Less than 5 Years Service

Post by Dington » Thu Jul 03, 2025 6:41 pm

Yeahhh, we’re gonna go ahead and need some graphs. That’d be great.
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Re: Here we go: Eliminate 3 Year Extension Limit for Player w/Less than 5 Years Service

Post by BaseClogger » Thu Jul 03, 2025 6:46 pm

You convinced me enough to shut up and listen.
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Re: Here we go: Eliminate 3 Year Extension Limit for Player w/Less than 5 Years Service

Post by Bob Breum » Thu Jul 03, 2025 6:49 pm

Could we make this retroactive? Asking for a friend ...
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Re: Here we go: Eliminate 3 Year Extension Limit for Player w/Less than 5 Years Service

Post by BTuck2112 » Thu Jul 03, 2025 6:51 pm

You also convinced me to shut up and listen and wait for the stat nerds that are way smarter than me to come forth. Also you used the word rankled in a sentence, so that was hilarious.
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Re: Here we go: Eliminate 3 Year Extension Limit for Player w/Less than 5 Years Service

Post by jiminyhopkins » Thu Jul 03, 2025 6:54 pm

Another thought for the old timers, esp @recte44 ...

I think we had something like this in the old GBC. They were called "Franchise Players" and I think you could only have 2 at any given time.
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Re: Here we go: Eliminate 3 Year Extension Limit for Player w/Less than 5 Years Service

Post by Krathan » Thu Jul 03, 2025 6:55 pm

I’m really curious to see what comes out of this. I think you’ve brought up some interesting things here and I’d be very interested in seeing if anyone can put together some data that helps us decide what the right course of action is here.

I do feel like long term demands have become much more realistic than they used to be and I’ve seen some of the same things you discussed in trying to see if a 3 year deal could be agreed to with a younger player. I got one done that I felt was pretty reasonable and realistic but there are some other guys who only want to talk about 1 or 6 year deals.
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Re: Here we go: Eliminate 3 Year Extension Limit for Player w/Less than 5 Years Service

Post by Bob Breum » Thu Jul 03, 2025 6:57 pm

Thank you for explaining the history behind this bizarre rule that I always forget about, well, probably won't forget again anytime soon.
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Re: Here we go: Eliminate 3 Year Extension Limit for Player w/Less than 5 Years Service

Post by aaronweiner » Thu Jul 03, 2025 6:59 pm

So Marko only cares about this because he has a lot of good young players now.

This is an absolute no for me, dog. No no no no.

In fact, I suspect you have only suggested this because you have gamed out the contracts for several of your young players, found them not lacking, and once they were enshrined in sweet, sugary goodness, leaving it to someone else to suggest we close the door behind this one because the contracts worked out so well, and oh my stars who could have known? Not dishonestly. Honestly. With some aplomb.

But no no no no no. There's a reason we have this rule, and it's still as good today as it was when we made it. The whole goal is to make it difficult to hold on to young players forever. We genuinely do not want this. Free agency is dry enough without making it absolutely a desert.

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Re: Here we go: Eliminate 3 Year Extension Limit for Player w/Less than 5 Years Service

Post by jiminyhopkins » Thu Jul 03, 2025 7:00 pm

aaronweiner wrote:
Thu Jul 03, 2025 6:59 pm
So Marko only cares about this because he has a lot of good young players now.

This is an absolute no for me, dog. No no no no.

In fact, I suspect you have only suggested this because you have gamed out the contracts for several of your young players, found them not lacking, and once they were enshrined in sweet, sugary goodness, leaving it to someone else to suggest we close the door behind this one because the contracts worked out so well, and oh my stars who could have known? Not dishonestly. Honestly. With some aplomb.

But no no no no no. There's a reason we have this rule, and it's still as good today as it was when we made it. The whole goal is to make it difficult to hold on to young players forever.
Read my first paragraph again, "dog". ;)
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Re: Here we go: Eliminate 3 Year Extension Limit for Player w/Less than 5 Years Service

Post by BTuck2112 » Thu Jul 03, 2025 7:02 pm

Let’s just all ask ourselves one question. Would reverting this rule make Nashville stronger or weaker? I’ll hang up and listen.
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Re: Here we go: Eliminate 3 Year Extension Limit for Player w/Less than 5 Years Service

Post by aaronweiner » Thu Jul 03, 2025 7:04 pm

And I will say this: were we to do this - were we to MAYBE do this - the minimum would be four service years. The player MUST be allowed to get past his $500K contracts before this happens because while we don't know the ultimate effect on having a low average contract number on their next contract, there's a better chance that contract #2 is lower than usual as a result, too.

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Re: Here we go: Eliminate 3 Year Extension Limit for Player w/Less than 5 Years Service

Post by aaronweiner » Thu Jul 03, 2025 7:05 pm

jiminyhopkins wrote:
Thu Jul 03, 2025 7:00 pm
aaronweiner wrote:
Thu Jul 03, 2025 6:59 pm
So Marko only cares about this because he has a lot of good young players now.

This is an absolute no for me, dog. No no no no.

In fact, I suspect you have only suggested this because you have gamed out the contracts for several of your young players, found them not lacking, and once they were enshrined in sweet, sugary goodness, leaving it to someone else to suggest we close the door behind this one because the contracts worked out so well, and oh my stars who could have known? Not dishonestly. Honestly. With some aplomb.

But no no no no no. There's a reason we have this rule, and it's still as good today as it was when we made it. The whole goal is to make it difficult to hold on to young players forever.
Read my first paragraph again, "dog". ;)
Well, there's a refute.

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Re: Here we go: Eliminate 3 Year Extension Limit for Player w/Less than 5 Years Service

Post by aaronweiner » Thu Jul 03, 2025 7:06 pm

I should note that I have always considered this one of our BEST rules. There are all kinds of nonsense gamesmanship things that this rule has chopped down.

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Re: Here we go: Eliminate 3 Year Extension Limit for Player w/Less than 5 Years Service

Post by Bob Breum » Thu Jul 03, 2025 7:44 pm

aaronweiner wrote:
Thu Jul 03, 2025 7:06 pm
I should note that I have always considered this one of our BEST rules. There are all kinds of nonsense gamesmanship things that this rule has chopped down.
Extending your own players is now gamesmanship? If we follow your logic, we should restrict extensions of front office personnel; the current front office personnel free agent market is very grim. Let's all have bidding wars for the best trainers!
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Re: Here we go: Eliminate 3 Year Extension Limit for Player w/Less than 5 Years Service

Post by 7teen » Thu Jul 03, 2025 8:11 pm

The AlHoot rule!
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Re: Here we go: Eliminate 3 Year Extension Limit for Player w/Less than 5 Years Service

Post by niles08 » Thu Jul 03, 2025 8:12 pm

I am extremely interested to see where this goes.

I've always thought the intent was to avoid gaming OOTP. The game handles it much better than it used to, and players actually ask for longer contracts now. Its also happening more common in MLB with young players signing long term deals before reaching arbitration.

Of course, we have a rule limiting contract length, so there is a point where this still makes little sense. It likely is around that 4th year BBA service time range where this starts to make sense buying out arb years for a longer term deal.
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Re: Here we go: Eliminate 3 Year Extension Limit for Player w/Less than 5 Years Service

Post by BaseClogger » Thu Jul 03, 2025 8:12 pm

It doesn’t seem particularly difficult to hold onto homegrown players under the current conditions, but I also think less rules is better if they’re not serving an important function.
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Re: Here we go: Eliminate 3 Year Extension Limit for Player w/Less than 5 Years Service

Post by aaronweiner » Thu Jul 03, 2025 8:19 pm

Bob Breum wrote:
Thu Jul 03, 2025 7:44 pm
aaronweiner wrote:
Thu Jul 03, 2025 7:06 pm
I should note that I have always considered this one of our BEST rules. There are all kinds of nonsense gamesmanship things that this rule has chopped down.
Extending your own players is now gamesmanship? If we follow your logic, we should restrict extensions of front office personnel; the current front office personnel free agent market is very grim. Let's all have bidding wars for the best trainers!
Why yes, it is! Thank you for asking. You didn't actually say anything, but that's neat that you said it.

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Re: Here we go: Eliminate 3 Year Extension Limit for Player w/Less than 5 Years Service

Post by Graham » Thu Jul 03, 2025 8:23 pm

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