Let's talk turkey, MBWBA

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Re: Let's talk turkey, MBWBA

Post by recte44 » Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:11 pm

Al-Hoot wrote:
bschr682 wrote:I know. I was mostly teasing but i think theres a bit of truth in that. A lot of inside stories and inside jokes pop up on these forums. As well as this BGC and GUBA and ORB2 stuff that pops up. Big turnoff for guys not in the know.
Not so much a turn off for me, Brett: I just shrug my shoulders, consider myself out of the loop, and move on.
Also, you could ask for more info....if you're curious. Certainly, no one is trying to have an "inside" group. Our hope (sorry to speak for the veterans here, but I will anyway...) is that the newer GM's here would embrace the past and be inquisitive about it, and likewise the veterans should be reaching out more to the new guys.

Sounds complicated, but hopefully I managed to deliver my point to all.

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Re: Let's talk turkey, MBWBA

Post by TimB » Sat Nov 19, 2011 3:40 am

Ok on that note how about someone knocks up a potted Family Tree? biography, of the leagues We are talking about? Who's been in them, if they're still active? My only experience of online/fantasy baseball is OOTP, though I did watch an ESPN documentary about the founders of "Rotisserie Baseball" I'm fascinated by the different incarnations of this sort of thing whether its fantasy style (based on the players exploits in real life) or more OOTP style.

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Re: Let's talk turkey, MBWBA

Post by Al-Hoot » Sat Nov 19, 2011 2:23 pm

A short chart showing the history of the league and what programs were used to play them would be great. And if the league had any expansion at any time. And yeah, if that gets in to the mysterious acronyms BGC and GUBA and ORB2, that would be great too.

I would have asked earlier, I'm curious, but my priorities have been my team, my writing, and developing a long term franchise strategy.

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Re: Let's talk turkey, MBWBA

Post by recte44 » Sat Nov 19, 2011 3:25 pm

Brad, didn't you do a history of our leagues post at one time???

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Re: Let's talk turkey, MBWBA

Post by Fat Nige » Sun Nov 20, 2011 6:15 am

OK, I hold my hands up as an 'autopilot GM' this year and really an absent GM for the last week or so hence my late entry into this thread.
I consider myself an active GM with my previous two MBBA teams (Omaha, Baltimore) but was invited to take on Phoenix in Sept of 2001 (game time). I got three articles out quickly before the end of the season but then we hit the conversion and the long break. I found it hard to get back into my new team once we restarted, and as others have said, found that other things had taken their toll on my time. My participation ebbed cumulating in what has been a break from all my online activity just recently where I just couldnt face even visiting the forums. I tried to keep exporting and the new replay feature in the OOTPOU has been great for dragging me back and introducing me to my team.
I've always enjoyed the MBBA (and ORB2 before it folded) and hope we can work this through. I'll try to be more active going forward although it might be a bit late for this season. There have been a few good ideas in this thread, I like the names in the signatures one as I'm always forgetting who's who. A thread to discuss the last sim would be good and also updating the PP count several times a season would help to know where people were with regards to that.
My suggestion for the EBA would be to extend it to 12 teams so there's more people to form a community and foster trading. Initially have MBBA GM's to mange the open EBA teams till you can find their own GMs and hold the All-Star game between the MBBA & the EBA.
That's my twopenceworth anyway
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Re: Let's talk turkey, MBWBA

Post by recte44 » Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:42 am

So, you're still around, Nigel?? :)

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Re: Let's talk turkey, MBWBA

Post by LambeauLeap » Sun Nov 20, 2011 12:36 pm

Couple items:

1. Our "inside jokes" really aren't meant to make people left out. Matt and I had known each other in one for or another since we were kids in 1982, and have been in baseball leagues together or run them together since 1989. Our hope isn't to make people left out but rather start to make them more inclusive and bring more people in. We'll try to be more conscious of this and do bring it up if you need clarification on anything.

2. I have a history around somewhere and I'll have to dig it out.
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Re: Let's talk turkey, MBWBA

Post by Fat Nige » Sun Nov 20, 2011 1:54 pm

Yeah I'm still around, I just had a break from everything. Sorry not to tell you but if I had gone round telling everyone online I'd still be going
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Re: Let's talk turkey, MBWBA

Post by jiminyhopkins » Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:00 pm

Al-Hoot wrote: And yeah, if that gets in to the mysterious acronyms BGC and GUBA and ORB2, that would be great too.
BGC.... Is that the international name for Baseball, Global Consortium?

For those not in the know, the Global Baseball Consortium (yes, I came up with the name) is the FPS BBPro98 successor to the Earl Weaver II-based NACBA, one of Matt and Brad's first successful nationwide sim leagues. While Matt and Brad have understandably moved on to the much more indepth world of OOTP sim leagues, the GBC still lives on as somewhat of an anachronism under the steady hand of commissioner Eric Ramon.

But its not due to our love of FPS BBPro, a solid but simplistic program that forces the commissioner of a sim league into literally hours of manual roster moves. The secret to the GBC's longevity is the Player Tracking System, the web-based league interface that is the brainchild of one Mr. Terry Stapleton. Rather revolutionary when it was introduced in the year 2000, it provides a central, web based home for each of the GBC's virtual teams. 38 seasons of stats and 11 years (real time) of roster moves are preserved for posterity on each team's homepage, while also providing for roster management and lineup submission.

Another great part of the PTS is the interactive Free Agent bidding system and financial management displays. These aspects of the PTS greatly enhance the ability of the BBPro98 program to function as a sim league, adding many features to a sim engine that doesn't natively include them.

Player development in BBPro98 is very straightforward, and as a result our league is less of a developmental league and more of a salary cap management league. Since your young players will more or less reach their potentials regardless of where you put them (albiet faster in "LOW"), the secret to competing in our league is signing players to creative contracts and locking up young stars early with "Franchise Player" deals. There is also a good deal of trading in the GBC, facilitated by the fact that one can trade their draft picks up to two seasons in the future. Trading of cash is also a big part of it, as both teams need to remain under the cap after any deal.

So that is a small snapshot of the GBC as it exists today. Matt and Brad can provide much more insight as to the league's founding, history, and transition from the NACBA, but as a GBC Apologist, I think our members should know that the league still exists today, mainly due to the hard work of a few induviduals interested in keeping the dream alive.

Below is a link to the GBC's Player Tracking System login page to the GBC 'Prime' League (The 'Deuce' League came about slightly later). By entering "guest" in the login box, you can view many of the features of the PTS as well as the roster of any team.

Global Baseball Consortium Prime League

What does this have to do with the MBWBA? Aside from the fact that a number of MBWBA members are also part of the GBC, it also represents the point in history where Matt and Brad's internet sim leagues really took off and became a nationwide community, much of which is still quite intact well over a decade and a half after taking first flight.

Hope this sheds a little bit of light about one of the ancestors of the modern MBWBA, and the reason why many of us first came together as a now international internet baseball community. :cool:
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Re: Let's talk turkey, MBWBA

Post by 7teen » Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:11 pm

When I left the GBC, the history of the league and my team is what made my exit so difficult. The game is archaic, but the league had history which was tough to walk away from. Eric Ramon should be inducted into the FPS hall of fame.
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Re: Let's talk turkey, MBWBA

Post by LambeauLeap » Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:40 pm

Terry's PTS system was nothing short of revolutionary for online leagues. Much of what we take for granted here was new in the PTS and made the simmers life so much easier.

One of the last things I did over int he GBC was push a new free agency system that had staggered "entrance" dates for players, etc. I think it's still being used.

Because FPS was very rudimentary (it seemed advanced 12-14 years ago) we built a lot of things outside the app, much of which Terry incorporated in to the PTS.

Lots of history there, good and bad, and regardless of the software it's still a great league with a TON of experienced and long-time GMs. Ramon and his term deserve a metric sh*t-ton of credit for keeping it going and building such an awesome history.

I beta tested OOTP 2-4 but never totally got in to it and really quit the sim baseball thing around 2003. Matt did the OOTP online thing without me. Before that we see-saw'd back and forth leading the Weaver and FPS leagues.

We were a pretty tight-knit group back then. Marko came up to visit us from Toledo with former GBC and MBBA owner Nick SPitulski. Didn't Scott Trower (another GBC/NACBAer) come up too?

In the history of Matt/Brad Baseball Leagues:

I started doing the baseball league thing in around '86 with MicroLeague Baseball for Apple ][e and then Weaver on the PC.
PCBA: Our HIgh School non-internet endeavor (1989-1993)
OCBA: The next gen post HIgh School pre-internet league (1993-1995)
WCBA: MAtt did this one with the Kloes brothers and others in Fondy (1995-1996)
NACBA: Our first foray in to online leagues. the internet was purely for communications and internet purposes. All dimming and transactions were done offline (via online communications tools and notes) (1996-1998)
GBC: Moved the NACBA from Weaver Baseball to FPS Baseball and renamed the league (as Marko indicated) (1998-Present)
GBC2 (The Deuce): An off-shoot league (was that 2000?)
GBC3 (The Tres): Short-lived for awhile

Matt can talk about the MBBA, GUBA, ORB, ORB2, etc. I ran a short-lived OOTP league (National Baseball League, The NBL) that started in 1947 and only lasted one season.
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Re: Let's talk turkey, MBWBA

Post by LambeauLeap » Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:41 pm

Weaver 1.5 and 2.0 were the choice of the PCBA and NACBA. the GBC used FPS Baseball.

My solo and small league endeavors prior to the PCBA were done on Weaver 1.0 and 1.5.
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Re: Let's talk turkey, MBWBA

Post by cheekimonk » Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:23 pm

jiminyhopkins wrote:Rather revolutionary when it was introduced in the year 2000, it provides a central, web based home for each of the GBC's virtual teams. 38 seasons of stats and 11 years (real time) of roster moves are preserved for posterity on each team's homepage, while also providing for roster management and lineup submission.
Where the hell did he find a web server and bandwidth for that kind of data in the early 00's? Somebody either had a shitload of extra money or worked in IT at a company or university that remained in the dark as to what was on their servers (as most of them did back then). Or they actually were REALLY good and I shouldn't ask anymore questions...
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Re: Let's talk turkey, MBWBA

Post by Al-Hoot » Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:27 pm

Thanks for the info, guys. It's cool to hear about the evolution of online baseball and what makes one game different from the next.
LambeauLeap wrote:I ran a short-lived OOTP league (National Baseball League, The NBL) that started in 1947 and only lasted one season.
Would love to be in a historical league, or a historical league with an inaugural draft. That is what most my solo play consists of now. As for 1947, that's a great year to start a league.

I once ran a live league using the 1949 season players, except I did an inaugural draft and fictionalized every players' name, so the Gms in the league really had to go by performance. It was awesome. I didn't have a team, for obvious reasons. This was with APBA for Windows.

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Re: Let's talk turkey, MBWBA

Post by LambeauLeap » Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:09 pm

Terry is/was a teacher (he may be retired now). He wasn't a programmer or a professional IT person. he taught himself the technologies needed to make it work, which makes it all the more extraordinary.
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Re: Let's talk turkey, MBWBA

Post by blake » Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:54 pm

The left out thing is common in all leagues. If youre new to any league that will happen. Theres always inside jokes or history between GM's. It's just how it is. I don't feel left out I just realize it's natural for that to be. And in a way the veteran GM's have kind of earned that right by virtue of being in the league longer anyway. So I dont have any issue with that at all.

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Let's talk turkey, MBWBA

Post by cheekimonk » Sun Nov 20, 2011 10:06 pm

LambeauLeap wrote:Terry is/was a teacher (he may be retired now). He wasn't a programmer or a professional IT person. he taught himself the technologies needed to make it work, which makes it all the more extraordinary.
This is part of the services I offer for a living. Just basing it off this league (assuming that program had all the data points of OOTP) and extrapolating out 32 seasons, that would be a difficult request even now for the majority of my clients' budgets (10 to 15 person shops with no need to own the hardware or maintain a data center)...and I'm assuming no images.
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Re: Let's talk turkey, MBWBA

Post by 7teen » Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:40 am

Al-Hoot wrote:Thanks for the info, guys. It's cool to hear about the evolution of online baseball and what makes one game different from the next.
LambeauLeap wrote:I ran a short-lived OOTP league (National Baseball League, The NBL) that started in 1947 and only lasted one season.
Would love to be in a historical league, or a historical league with an inaugural draft. That is what most my solo play consists of now. As for 1947, that's a great year to start a league.

I once ran a live league using the 1949 season players, except I did an inaugural draft and fictionalized every players' name, so the Gms in the league really had to go by performance. It was awesome. I didn't have a team, for obvious reasons. This was with APBA for Windows.
You would have loved the ORB2. It was another Recte league that was a historical league started in 1962. It was the first (and only) historical online league I was ever in and loved it. Other than the GBC, I probably enjoyed it more than any online league I've been in. I think we made it through around 1977 before this league zapped some of the ORB2's energy and it folded.
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Re: Let's talk turkey, MBWBA

Post by 7teen » Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:42 am

LambeauLeap wrote:Terry is/was a teacher (he may be retired now). He wasn't a programmer or a professional IT person. he taught himself the technologies needed to make it work, which makes it all the more extraordinary.
Was Terry even an owner of a team in the GBC? I don't recall him ever owning a team, yet he created the site that made the league possible.
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LB Surfers 95-96
FL Pac Champs: 95

Madison Wolves 99-2039
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FL WC: 31, 33
BBA: 04, 09

Portland Lumberjacks 2040-
FL Pacific: 50, 59
FL WC: 49, 51, 60
FL: 49, 51, 59
BBA: 59

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Re: Let's talk turkey, MBWBA

Post by recte44 » Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:59 am

Orig Manhattan Myst

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