Changeup

[udlb58]

Okay, so is this something new in OOTP17?

Changeup Talent Increases from 1 to 9
Changeup Talent Increases from 2 to 5

If so, this adds some intrigue to the development model for pitchers with crappy changeups. Both of these guys were 2 pitch relievers with 1 (maybe 2) potential changeups. Both developed good enough changeups to start overnight. Now neither Fuller nor Gomez possess the capabilities to actually be MBBA starting pitchers, but someone could hit the development lottery with an elite closer prospect suddenly becoming an elite starting prospect.

[Lane]

Wow, that's awesome. I wish Jimmy Greenwood's changeup would get the same treatment.


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[recte44]

Yes, this is a new feature. Two pitch pitchers can become starters.

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[udlb58]

Yes, this is a new feature. Two pitch pitchers can become starters.

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Seems kind of counter intuitive. How many guys have been bullpen arms in the minors turned starting pitchers? Maybe it is more to reflect a borderline SP that can be used as a starter in the minors who suddenly develops the pitch to transfer that into the majors?

[Bumstead]

I think there are many "Starting Pitchers" that are drafted that really only have 2 decent pitches and learn another pitch so that starting is more realistic. I'm not really sure why a pitcher should have to have 3 pitches to start to be honest. Randy Johnson didn't and really how many pitchers have 3 pitches that they use more than 20% of the time each. Tom Browning probably threw his fastball 80% of the time. I just don't think there are really that many pitchers that have 3 quality pitches and actually use 3 quality pitches a similar amount of the time. I think that whole thing is flawed in OOTP.

[recte44]

Yes, this is a new feature. Two pitch pitchers can become starters.

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Seems kind of counter intuitive. How many guys have been bullpen arms in the minors turned starting pitchers? Maybe it is more to reflect a borderline SP that can be used as a starter in the minors who suddenly develops the pitch to transfer that into the majors?

It's actually highly realistic. Most college pitchers, and I bet 95% of high school pitchers, use only two pitches. Changeup is frequently learned in the minors.

Just from a Brewers angle: Jimmy Nelson was a straight two pitch pitcher, he had to (and still is trying to master) learn a curveball. Same with Wily Peralta.

[udlb58]

Yes, this is a new feature. Two pitch pitchers can become starters.

Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk

Seems kind of counter intuitive. How many guys have been bullpen arms in the minors turned starting pitchers? Maybe it is more to reflect a borderline SP that can be used as a starter in the minors who suddenly develops the pitch to transfer that into the majors?

It's actually highly realistic. Most college pitchers, and I bet 95% of high school pitchers, use only two pitches. Changeup is frequently learned in the minors.

Just from a Brewers angle: Jimmy Nelson was a straight two pitch pitcher, he had to (and still is trying to master) learn a curveball. Same with Wily Peralta.

Right, but that's like saying power is developed in the minors so it is reasonable for a guy to go from 1 power to 9 in a week. This is more of a discussion for the OOTP boards, but I'd rather see everyone with the stamina with some sort of potential to develop a change and only some fullfil that potential. Seems odd to have a guy jump from 1 current to 9 current in one sim.

[recte44]

Oh yeah, that part is insane.

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[Bumstead]

Right, but that's like saying power is developed in the minors so it is reasonable for a guy to go from 1 power to 9 in a week. This is more of a discussion for the OOTP boards, but I'd rather see everyone with the stamina with some sort of potential to develop a change and only some fullfil that potential. Seems odd to have a guy jump from 1 current to 9 current in one sim.

Maybe he was working with Mario Soto that week....

[agrudez]

Imo it is coincidence that it was a changeup in both cases. There has always been an extremely low probability that a player will develop an extra pitch or have a low pitch's POT bump. In the latter case, especially, pitch POT is tied to STU POT. So if a guy bumps STU it is really him bumping velocity or his pitches. Like a batter that bumps CON is really bumping his AVK or internal BABIP. In Cruz's case, he bumped 2 STU POT the same sim as his changeup.

Also, as an aside, there is not a clean 1:1 between internal pitch ratings and what you see in the HTML Reports. For example, a guy might have a 200 fastball on the internal scale, but if his velocity is 83-85 then his fastball will show up as a '2' or something in his HTML Report.

[udlb58]

Imo it is coincidence that it was a changeup in both cases. There has always been an extremely low probability that a player will develop an extra pitch or have a low pitch's POT bump. In the latter case, especially, pitch POT is tied to STU POT. So if a guy bumps STU it is really him bumping velocity or his pitches. Like a batter that bumps CON is really bumping his AVK or internal BABIP. In Cruz's case, he bumped 2 STU POT the same sim as his changeup.

Also, as an aside, there is not a clean 1:1 between internal pitch ratings and what you see in the HTML Reports. For example, a guy might have a 200 fastball on the internal scale, but if his velocity is 83-85 then his fastball will show up as a '2' or something in his HTML Report.

I understand how the inner ratings work, I used to help create the MLB/MiLB roster sets on the beta team. I'm shocked at a guy jumping 8 points on his actual changeup rating. I get that Gomez's velo increased 1 MPH, which is probably the whole reason for the increase in fastball rating. But that wouldn't account for the 8 point bump in changeup rating.

[recte44]

If I recall correctly it's always changeup.

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