Ross White (Vegas/ATC deal)

[cheekimonk]

I was gearing up to throw a huge offer out for White, so seeing what Matt gave up is an interesting guage. I'd have to lean in Vegas' favor on this one...but not by much.

Van Winkle is a stud but he lost 3 total rating points in the 1/1/03 update which is concerning. Crocker has walked 4.3 per 9 this year and he's maxed out control already. I have more confidence in Gibson reaching full potential than Mason.

But White's injuries have been more & more frequent the last 2 to 3 years which has had me debating his money's worth.

So all-in-all a solid deal.

[blake]

What does he get for White one of the top outfielders in the game? David Crocker who is a career 21-23 with a 1.53 WHIP, a bust catching prospect, a declining 34 year old 1B that makes 6.4 million through 2005, and Gerald Mason, an average 3B prospect.

Basically he got nothing for the guy. Welcome to the Roman Empire trade all over again.

[blake]

He'll dump White for nothing but then he'll hold out for a ransom for Art Messer.

[scottsdale_joe]

I'd LOVE to have Crocker.
It's not all that bad a deal.

And anyway, White is only hitting .533 since joining LV.

[bschr682]

Definitely a Vegas win but not super rediculous or anything. I wish PP could be thrown around a bit more. I like those young guys ATC got back a lot better if he would have made Matt spend some PP on em first. ATC get cracking on ur team news and what not and raise those guys intangibles with some PP. You could end up the winner in the deal yet.

[blake]

Come on it's a total fleecing. Gibson is 25 and hitting .232 at AA. I mean hello the guy is not going to magically turn it around. Hes a career .221 hitter in the minor leagues. So hes absolutely nothing. Van Winkle is nothing but a declining vet. And Mason is an average 3B prospect that may never pan out.

So it's basically White for Crocker. And since Crocker only has 2 good pitches hes not much as a starter. So for Ross White one of the best outfielders in the whole league hes getting a middle reliever.

[bschr682]

Crocker is a starter. I dont buy that only 2 good pitch excuse at all. That 3rd pitch is plenty good enough for him to be a starter. Gibson is the weakest part of the deal yes. you cannot write off mason saying he might never pan out. All prospects are subject to this. and van winkle may be old but he still has tread. Do i think he should have gotten more? yes. but a fleecing? nope

[scottsdale_joe]

Crocker would sure start for me.

[cheekimonk]

Crocker would sure start for me.

If he had room to grow I'd give you that, but still walking over 4 per 9 is a bad sign. He might could get away with that as a reliever but I think it'll kill him in the long run as a starter.

[blake]

He can start it's just that given the lack of pitches hes not as good as a starter.

[blake]

Crocker would sure start for me.

If he had room to grow I'd give you that, but still walking over 4 per 9 is a bad sign. He might could get away with that as a reliever but I think it'll kill him in the long run as a starter.

Yeah his control is below average and he seems to play under his ratings too. The H/9 is way off from what it should be with a pitcher with that movement.

[bschr682]

keep in mind he is only 24.

[cyrisnyte]

So it seems that I may have come out on the short end of the stick (from what I have read). In my opinion, I like the trade and here are the reasons why.

1. Ross White is getting older and it seems every year he is getting injured. Toss in that he was the only "superstar" on the Gamblers team and it didn't make sense to keep him in Atlantic City.

2. I (my feelings which may be WAY wrong) like David Crocker a lot. Yes, I understand his fastball isn't the greatest but in my opinion he is a good starter. He isn't an ace but he isn't a scrub. I love his ground ball% is 71 and has decent stuff and great movement.

3. Gerald Mason while he isn't an offensive monster, he does have good defense which is what I want at 3rd.

4. Bob Gibson also not a monster on the offensive side, he does have a good arm and good rating at catcher.

So did I really make a bad trade? I don't think it's horrible but for an aging superstar who is injury prone (at least for my team) I feel I did ok.

Just my $.02

Jeff

[bschr682]

Look at Mason's potential and then take a look at my all star 3rd baseman Jason Sherman. Awfully similar. He's a legit prospect.

[blake]

I mean I wouldnt mind having David Crocker either but I wouldnt be dumping White for him. Id need a premier pitcher for that or at least a stud bat. Just one comparable player.

[blake]

Look at Mason's potential and then take a look at my all star 3rd baseman Jason Sherman. Awfully similar. He's a legit prospect.

Mason is a nice prospect. I wanted to draft him but Las Vegas got to him. I dont think hes Sherman though.

[bschr682]

i see all the points ur made and they are valid but what is he supposed to do? keeping white around does nothing if he cant imporve the team. For all we know white will start lumping like crazy after his next injury. He sold high (although it could have been slightly higher) and with this trade and the rock trade last season he has a bunch of minor leaguers that can make an impact either on his team or in future trades.

[blake]

I dont know. Maybe because of his injury history people were scared off and thats the best he could do. I guess the question is is it best to just keep White if all you're getting is Crocker and Mason.

It's possible Crocker gets better too. Hes only 24 and so far hes been below average, but maybe he gets it all together finally. I dont know. Maybe it'll work out for him.

[bschr682]

i think the crazy thing is his contract. There are some really, really stupid "agents" in this game.

[recte44]

Gibson is the #34 prospect in the game and keeps talent bumping.
Mason is the #80 prospect in the game and he will be a damn good player.

Vanilla Ice in for salary dump, but then he could turn around and trade him for a spec.

Crocker is 24 years old, and he's a #3 type starter. I think he has a load of talent.

This is a nice haul for a rebuilding team. If someone disagrees, then that's their prerogative....