2032: A Tale of Two Running Teams

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2032: A Tale of Two Running Teams

Post by RonCo » Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:12 pm

Brooklyn is totally burning up the basepaths this year. They’ve stolen 392 bases, after all. That’s right. 392. No typos there. That’s all part of their success story, right? Well, yes, and no. Yes, they’ve stolen a crap-ton of bases, but no, they’ve also been caught a bunch of times: 186 to be specific.

The bottom line is that their success rate of about 68% is enough that their running game is producing a net positive, but low enough that it’s not the positive it could be.

How good could it be?

We’re glad you asked. Let’s compare the Robins to Madison, the team that has the best baserunner in the league, and quite possibly the best baserunner in the history of the league in Mons Raider.
  • Brooklyn: 392 SB, 186 CS (67.8%)
  • Madison: 258 SB, 102 CS (71.7%)
How much is that 4% difference worth? Well, as a rough rule of thumb, I generally say a SB is worth .33 runs, and a CS costs a team .64 runs. These numbers can adjust a little league to league, but they’re a decent enough guideline. If we apply those weights we get the following:
  • Brooklyn: 392 SB – 186 CS = 129.36 Runs – 119.04 Runs = 10.32 Runs
This means Brooklyn’s running game has netted them about 10 runs, and at 10 runs = a win, that suggests their basepath daring-do has them one game better off than they would be if they just never ran at all.
  • Madison: 258 SB - 102 CS = 85.14 Runs – 65.28 Runs = 19.86 Runs
Doing the same math says the Wolves as a team are essentially two wins better off for all that running. That’s right…they’ve stolen 134 fewer bases than the Robins, but have gotten twice the value out of their running game.

Take what you want from this little back-of-the-napkin study, but to date, Brooklyn is in an unlikely dogfight for a playoff position, and Madison is standing atop the Heartland by a slim margin. One game either way makes a big difference to both, we think.
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Re: 2032: A Tale of Two Running Teams

Post by RonCo » Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:17 pm

As an addendum, comparing Madison's work to their Yellow Springs Rival:
  • MAD: 258 SB - 102 CS = 85.14 Runs – 65.28 Runs = 19.86 Runs
  • YS9: 218 SB - 104 CS = 71.94 Runs – 66.56 Runs = 5.38 Runs
So Madison is about 14.5 runs better than YS (19.86 - 5.38) ... which works out to about 1.5 wins...which is exactly their current lead in the Heartland standings.
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Re: 2032: A Tale of Two Running Teams

Post by usnspecialist » Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:30 pm

I did the math for my team on this, it was not pretty....
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Re: 2032: A Tale of Two Running Teams

Post by RonCo » Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:47 pm

Here's the whole league:
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Re: 2032: A Tale of Two Running Teams

Post by RonCo » Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:49 pm

Look at Long Beach. Runs less than anyone, but has one of the most productive running games of the league because they're successful 82 % of the time.

Louisville doesn't run much either, but when they do run, they run atrociously (and have lost two games in the standings because of it if you buy this study).
Last edited by RonCo on Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2032: A Tale of Two Running Teams

Post by RonCo » Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:51 pm

Summing the entire league:

SB: 5920
CS: 3199
SB% = 64.9
Total Runs Gained: -93.76

That's right...the league as a whole is running like mad, but all total has lost almost 100 runs relative to where they would be if no one ever ran at all. Interesting, eh?
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Re: 2032: A Tale of Two Running Teams

Post by Lane » Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:11 pm

Ah, you scooped me on this topic! :) You did much better than I would have though.

I noticed yesterday how LOU was the only team running less than me. I did not do any of the math, and I'm really surprised to see that we have the third most productive running game. I'm very intentional about who I allow to run, so I'm not surprised that we're net positive. But wow, caught stealing is really costing a lot of teams a lot of runs.
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Re: 2032: A Tale of Two Running Teams

Post by Lane » Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:15 pm

my goodness look at the success rates...LBC is more than 10% better than second best.
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Re: 2032: A Tale of Two Running Teams

Post by Ted » Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:23 pm

I have a couple guys I know I need to tell to stop. Otherwise I'd be a bit better. It's hard to tell the guy with 10/8/8 ratings to stop running, but a track record is a track record. And 8 steal with a 10 influencing how often they run is obviously not going to work out well.
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Re: 2032: A Tale of Two Running Teams

Post by Spiccoli » Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:45 pm

I've noticed that my team steals 2nd pretty well, but then tries to steal 3rd too much and gets thrown out there too much

As far as coaching strategies goes, there should be a two different variables for stealing 2B and then 3B. I'd have 3B practically to zero except for special players or situations.

My coach had a saying... never make the 1st or 3rd out trying to take 3rd base. It's just a rally killer where a single has a good chance to score the run anyway. It's a wasted out.

Drives me crazy and almost makes me want to shut down steals all together for strategy.
Last edited by Spiccoli on Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2032: A Tale of Two Running Teams

Post by Spiccoli » Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:46 pm

Also, well done on the analysis. Thanks Ron
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Re: 2032: A Tale of Two Running Teams

Post by udlb58 » Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:58 am

RonCo wrote:Here's the whole league:
A combination of some bad luck, and not being able to get shit runners to stop (even with the sliders turned all the way down) has led to the sub-70% rate for JAX. I generally hate throwing away runs at 2B, especially with the HR heavy team we have; I just can't get some guys to stop.
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Re: 2032: A Tale of Two Running Teams

Post by Lane » Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:22 am

udlb58 wrote:
RonCo wrote:Here's the whole league:
A combination of some bad luck, and not being able to get shit runners to stop (even with the sliders turned all the way down) has led to the sub-70% rate for JAX. I generally hate throwing away runs at 2B, especially with the HR heavy team we have; I just can't get some guys to stop.
Weird. I only have 10 stolen base attempts from guys not named Claudio Chavez
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Re: 2032: A Tale of Two Running Teams

Post by cheekimonk » Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:11 am

Well, since you posted the numbers...

I did a different analysis that was more in-depth when I ran Indy. I imported all game logs from a season into Excel and used that data to extract a breakeven point of whether running is hurting or helping. I've heard most people say, off the top of their heads, that you need 2/3rds success (or even 75%). My analysis, however, put the breakeven point at just under 63%. This looks like it lines up very well considering we were using different data sets. So, it doesn't matter how much a team runs, if they are hitting +63% then running is a positive. However, if a team does have +63% and could sustain that with more SB attempts then they are leaving runs, and wins, on the field. Just have to find that balance.
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Re: 2032: A Tale of Two Running Teams

Post by RonCo » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:40 am

Yes, the break even point is dependent upon the run scoring environment of the league. If you adjust the run weighting for a SB vs. the cost of a CS, you get a slightly different break-even point.

And the ability to sustain a SB rate is also key. If Long Beach ran 300 times like everyone else, they would almost certainly not steal at 82% success.
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Re: 2032: A Tale of Two Running Teams

Post by RonCo » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:43 am

Here's a case study:

Rhett Lawson: The Perfect Storm

Rhett "Frankly Scarlett, I Don't Give a Damn" Lawson is a nearly 21-year-old rookie on the Omaha Barnstormers. He's considered fast (Speed = 10), but can't steal particularly well (STEAL = 5). Through his minor league career, he stole bases rarely, but ineffectually, swiping 7 bases and being thrown out 10 times in three stops last year (places where his OBP was .331/.356/.356).

He had 165 hits and 34 walks during that season, 34 of triples or homers. This means he attemped his 17 steals in 165 times on first or second. A rate of just over 10% of the time.

In the majors he's hit a bit of a wall, though, getting on base only 118 times (90 hits and 28 walks) for a .282 OBP. If we remove his 12 triples and homers, we see he's only been on first base 106 times (23 of those being doubles).

His problem, though, is that he's attempted to steal 39 times in those 106 times on base, let's say 37% of his times on base. He's been thrown out 24 of thos times for a horrific percentage that I don't even want to calculate for fear of making my eyes bleed.

Who is at fault here?

Is it Lawson?

Is it manager Armando Sanchez, who is well known for his love of the stolen base? Despit having relatively few base stealers in his toolshed, only two other teams have attempted more than the 434 steals he's called for.

Is it his overlord GM fiddling with the team's strategy settings? Is it just random fate that has almost quadrupled his running rate?

Dunno.
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Re: 2032: A Tale of Two Running Teams

Post by Lane » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:46 am

Yeah, since I'm only letting guys who can be successful steal, there's not much to be gained by increasing my attempts. Also, I'm leading the Frick in HR (again) so really, why bother stealing when the next guy up is just gonna hit a bombskie?
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Re: 2032: A Tale of Two Running Teams

Post by RonCo » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:48 am

Here's an interesting list...I calculated every team's SBA/(1b+BB) ... in other words how many stolen bases they attempted vs. how many times they were on first base (not counting HP and errors)

TM SBA/1BBB
BRK 0.476112026
OHA 0.394545455
HAV 0.368320611
CAR 0.365269461
TWC 0.354368932
CAL 0.347222222
HNT 0.342759212
JAX 0.335858586
CLG 0.325889165
CCJ 0.314186249
MAD 0.313043478
DES 0.308256881
MON 0.280675974
PHO 0.274543875
SAN 0.272636816
HFX 0.271369295
VAN 0.267857143
ATC 0.258145363
VAL 0.251805986
EDM 0.248598131
YS9 0.241198502
HAW 0.234753551
IND 0.232447818
LV 0.231023102
NO 0.202317291
SEA 0.2
LOU 0.124535316
LBC 0.085874799
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Re: 2032: A Tale of Two Running Teams

Post by Spiccoli » Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:02 pm

RonCo wrote:Here's an interesting list...I calculated every team's SBA/(1b+BB) ... in other words how many stolen bases they attempted vs. how many times they were on first base (not counting HP and errors)

TM SBA/1BBB
BRK 0.476112026
OHA 0.394545455
HAV 0.368320611
CAR 0.365269461
TWC 0.354368932
CAL 0.347222222
HNT 0.342759212
JAX 0.335858586
CLG 0.325889165
CCJ 0.314186249
MAD 0.313043478
DES 0.308256881
MON 0.280675974
PHO 0.274543875
SAN 0.272636816
HFX 0.271369295
VAN 0.267857143
ATC 0.258145363
VAL 0.251805986
EDM 0.248598131
YS9 0.241198502
HAW 0.234753551
IND 0.232447818
LV 0.231023102
NO 0.202317291
SEA 0.2
LOU 0.124535316
LBC 0.085874799
So there's a good chance Brooklyn is running?

Also, with Madison so far down, I'm guessing that means that most of the attempts are coming from just a few individuals?
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Re: 2032: A Tale of Two Running Teams

Post by 7teen » Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:31 pm

Very nice work. I think lineup construction has some to do with it as well in Madison...

I have a bunch of speedy guys and guys who get base hits. Mick is the only true "power threat" I have in my lineup with perhaps Barrera being close to a threat. I feel Madison needs to run more to generate runs.

If I was a team that had more sluggers in the middle of my lineup I may tone the running down on the rest of my guys and just focus on letting Dempsey and Raider do a bulk of the stealing (which if you look, those are my main two guys stealing anyway)
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