HOF Talk: Tiernan O’Macken

[RonCo]

Well, here you go. How many relievers get into the Hall of Fame? Not many, I’d say. Even the great ones. But then there’s Tiernan O’Macken, who was literally elite of the elite for a long time. I mean, here are a few things Tiernan O’Macken won:

1 Nebraska
2 Egans (five more times in the top three)
6 All-Star Appearances

Here’s the listing. Check it for yourself.

Bottom line for me, if Tiernan O’Macken isn’t in the Hall of Fame, then just strip out every reliever.

[Lane]

hmm...he's a no for me right now, but i will reconsider.

[Dington]

Figured I had to have him in if I voted for de Medici, who I think is a slam dunk. I’m just glad he was out of YS9. Didn’t follow his career too closely while in Phoenix, but seems he still balled out.

[recte44]

Now this gets tricky. He was essentially not a starter, nor a closer for the majority of his career. Yet he accumulated a bunch of WAR. Hmmmmm.

[RonCo]

Like I said on de'Medici's thread. de'Medici, O'Macken, and Danny Leach essentially defined the stopper role back in the day.

[Jwalk100]

Yes on O'Macken.

[BaseClogger]

Like I said on de'Medici's thread. de'Medici, O'Macken, and Danny Leach essentially defined the stopper role back in the day.

Never noticed Leach's history as a reliever. He's always had such a clear starting pitcher profile to me that I never woulda thought to use him any other way. Just a different era of incentives because he was accruing crazy high WAR as a reliever.

[RonCo]

Like I said on de'Medici's thread. de'Medici, O'Macken, and Danny Leach essentially defined the stopper role back in the day.

Never noticed Leach's history as a reliever. He's always had such a clear starting pitcher profile to me that I never woulda thought to use him any other way. Just a different era of incentives because he was accruing crazy high WAR as a reliever.

Leach won his Nebraska while pitching in the stopper role. As did, of course, O'Macken.

[RonCo]

Now this gets tricky. He was essentially not a starter, nor a closer for the majority of his career. Yet he accumulated a bunch of WAR. Hmmmmm.

The downside of being a stopper is that, while you pitch all the most valuable innings, you don't gather up nearly the counting numbers that a starter or a closer gathers up.

You can see hints of this in de'Medici's stats, too. De'Medici did close for some of his career, so he has 298 saves. But while he was "stopping" he had not good W/L record, and never saved more than 19 games. He's only #98 on the All-Time save list, though, which wouldn't get him a second glance if that's your expectation.

A great stopper is arguably the most important pitcher in the league, but he won't get much ink because he's mostly down in the trenches doing the dirty work.

[RonCo]

de'Medici had only two seasons where he saved more than 30 games. Only five where he saved more than 20.

Here is the stoppers life: You come in with a 1-run lead and the bases loaded in the 7th inning, you get out of that jam, and then throw a clean 8th, the sit down as the closer gets the save. And, of course, the starter gets the win.

You get a hold, sure. But no one...and I mean no one...has ever used that as a valuable counting stat.

[RonCo]

StatsPlus and the HTML Leader Boards don't even list Holds.

[Dington]

What Ron said. When he was with Nashville he was by far the most important pitcher, if not player, on the roster. Trading him allowed Nashville to rebuild pretty quickly. Thanks @7teen

Edit: oops thought this was about LDM, but applies to both pitchers.

[RonCo]

Here's a breakout of O'Macken and d'Medici's careers for general comparison. di'Medici wins some counting numbers because he closed more often, because of those gaudy K-Stuff ratings, and because of a little longer career.

But O'Macken's K/BB ratio was massively better, and his WAR/G (stat I made up, but works) is better. O'Macken's FIP- was (barely) better. His ERA- was six points better. On a moment by moment basis, during their fairly long peak value years, Tiernan O'Macken was a better pitcher than di'Medici (which is not a cut on di'Medici). For me, this isn't even really that close. That he was a lefty absolutely seals the deal.

I am happy to note that THIS piece of StatsPlus, at least, does show Holds.

[BaseClogger]

Di'Medici and O'Macken are extremely close and I wouldn't want one to go in without the other.

[RonCo]

I agree that in the context of the Hall, they are very close. In context of who I would select to enter one game, either would be great to have, but I would pick O'Macken if given a choice.

[7teen]

What Ron said. When he was with Nashville he was by far the most important pitcher, if not player, on the roster. Trading him allowed Nashville to rebuild pretty quickly. Thanks @7teen

Edit: oops thought this was about LDM, but applies to both pitchers.

Not a problem. He also helped anchor my bullpen for several seasons and was a valuable asset during our post-season runs.

[jiminyhopkins]

Played for the Talons. Gets all my votes.

But will he go in as a Talon or as a Nine??

[RonCo]

Interesting call. As much as I'd like to play the homer crowd, he did two-thirds of his career in Phoenix. I'd have to think he'd wear the Talons cap.

[Trebro]

okay, you all sold me. He's on my ballot.

[RonCo]

He'll never make it, but he should.