2004 Hall of Fame Final Tally

jcrmoon42 · Post by **jcrmoon42** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:42 pm

Congratulations to Heath Rockefeller, the winner of 3 Pitcher of the Year and 2 Reliever of the Year Awards, and all-time saves leader and Reliever of the Year namesake, Gunga Oogolagunga, for their election to the Hall of Fame this year. The voting was so tight this year that Gunga was actually elected on the very last ballot while Rockefeller hung on at the end to retain enough points. Nine players received first place votes, but perhaps the most polarizing figure on the ballot was Riley Hinson who was campaigned for by the Commish but still had 8 ballots with him in the bottom three. Unfortunately, this will be the final season on the ballot for Braggo Franco, Sam Kirkpatrick and Jack Maverick. Kirkpatrick will go down as one of the best pitchers not to make the Hall with his 156 ERA+. Unfortunately, voters seemed to be underwhelmed with only 186 wins. Maverick is also a sad case as voters seemed less than impressed by 401 career homers from a second baseman.

Here is your final tally. 460 points necessary for election:

Heath Rockefeller - (1)-3, (2)-4, (3)-6, (4)-1, (5)-1, (8)-1, (9)-1, (10)-2, (11)-1, Total 0 470
Gunga Oogolagunga - (1)-5, (2)-3, (3)-2, (4)-1, (5)-2, (6)-1, (7)-1, (8)-1, (9)-1, (12)-1, (14)-1, (15)-1, Total - 466
Glen Groves - (1)-3, (2)-3, (3)-2, (4)-1, (5)-3, (6)-2, (7)-1, (9)-2, (10)-1, (12)-1, (13)-1, Total - 414
Riley Hinson - (1)-4, (2)-1, (4)-3, (9)-1, (10)-2, (12)-1, (13)-5, (14)-1, (15)-2, Total - 340
Sam Kirkpatrick - (1)-1, (2)-2, (3)-1, (4)-1, (5)-3, (6)-2, (7)-4, (8)-1, (9)-1, (10)-1, (11)-3, Total - 327
Hank Daniels - (1)-1, (2)-2, (3)-1, (4)-2, (5)-2, (6)-3, (7)-2, (8)-2, (9)-1, (10)-1, (11)-1, (13)-2, Total - 324
Jack Maverick - (1)-1, (2)-3, (3)-1, (4)-2, (6)-1, (8)-1, (10)-1, (11)-4, (12)-2, (13)-1, (14)-3, Total - 301
Dave Manzanillo - (3)-3, (5)-2, (6)-1, (7)-3, (8)-2, (9)-2, (10)-1, (11)-2, (13)-1, (14)-2, (15)-1, Total - 250
Braggo Franco - (2)-1, (4)-6, (6)-1, (7)-1, (8)-2, (9)-1, (10)-1, (12)-4, (13)-1, (14)-2, Total - 249
Emile Santos - (1)-1, (4)-1, (5)-1, (6)-1, (7)-2, (8)-3, (9)-1, (10)-2, (11)-1, (12)-2, (14)-1, (15)-4, Total - 232
Evander Kilkenny - (3)-3, (6)-1, (7)-1, (8)-3, (9)-2, (10)-1, (11)-3, (12)-1, (13)-2, (14)-2, (15)-1, Total - 230
Zebediah Williams - (1)-1, (4)-1, (5)-2, (6)-3, (7)-1, (9)-1, (10)-2, (11)-1, (12)-1, (14)-2, 915)-5, Total - 229
Rashardo Menne, Jr. - (2)-1, (6)-2, (7)-2, (8)-3, (9)-2, (10)-2, (11)-1, (12)-2, (13)-2, (14)-2, (15)-1, Total - 1, Total 218
Archie Ayrault - (3)-1, (4)-1, (5)-2, (7)-1, (8)-1, (9)-2, (10)-1, (11)-1, (12)-1, (13)-4, (14)-1, (15)-4, Total - 197
Hayden Finch - (5)-2, (6)-2, (7)-1, (9)-2, (10)-2, (11)-2, (12)-4, (13)-1, (14)-3, (15)-1, Total - 193

JimBob2232 · Post by **JimBob2232** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:08 pm

Both very deserving. I hope Groves can crack through next year. The guy sure deserves it...

jcrmoon42 · Post by **jcrmoon42** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 5:13 pm

Depends on who retires. Nobody who just retired after the season will give him trouble. We will have to wait and see who calls it quits on January 1.

indiansfan · Post by **indiansfan** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 5:58 pm

I'm glad to see both of them make it in. Didn't get the pleasure to see them play, but I researched the online info available and thought both deserved it. While neither was a lock based on career totals it looked like both were dominate players for major stretches of their career. I had the same top 6 on my ballot with the only difference is I had Groves first.

jcrmoon42 · Post by **jcrmoon42** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 9:41 pm

I didn't rank Gunga high for much the same reason I don't rank Williams high. He was great in one category. The best ever. So far, anyway. However, neither was a great player. Again, this is one of the beautiful things about this process. We all have different opinions of what "great" is.

bschr682 · Post by **bschr682** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:11 pm

Poor Sammy. i tried. And i think Gunga was massively overrated.

7teen · Post by **7teen** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:47 am

jcrmoon42 wrote:I didn't rank Gunga high for much the same reason I don't rank Williams high. He was great in one category. The best ever. So far, anyway. However, neither was a great player. Again, this is one of the beautiful things about this process. We all have different opinions of what "great" is.

I don't think I've ever rated Gunga higher than 6th on my ballot. He's the career saves leader, for now. But in 6 of his seasons, his ERA was over 5.00. His career mark was only 4.27. That's not that good for a closer. Heck, in one year he had 37 saves but had an ERA of 6.11 and a WHIP of 1.58!

Plus, within the next 2-3 years, his mark will be broken and within the next 5-10 years, he'll no longer be in the top 5.

jcrmoon42 · Post by **jcrmoon42** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:32 pm

Yep...I had him twelfth on my ballot, and that's pretty much where he has always been. In my mind, he is the anti-Rockefeller. He had a good career as a whole but was not a great pitcher for the most part while Rock was a great pitcher over a short period of time. Still, the voters have spoken! We can mock the selection in twenty years.

YouTube · Post by **recte44** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:36 pm

It'll never be as bad as Willie Mays Hayes being in the Hall of Fame.

scottsdale_joe · Post by **scottsdale_joe** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:43 pm

I voted Gunga on top.
Glad he made it.
I wish the Oogalagunga Award was reinstated. Egan needs the hardware.

JimBob2232 · Post by **JimBob2232** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:06 pm

jcrmoon42 wrote:Yep...I had him twelfth on my ballot, and that's pretty much where he has always been. In my mind, he is the anti-Rockefeller. He had a good career as a whole but was not a great pitcher for the most part while Rock was a great pitcher over a short period of time. Still, the voters have spoken! We can mock the selection in twenty years.

I see where you are coming from. I think from my point of view, if you are the all-time leader in a major statistical category at the time of your retirement you should be in the HOF. Period. Also, with Gunga, there are some serious intangibles. We named an award after this guy! I think it would be quite the joke if Cy Young wasnt in the HOF.

I hear what your saying...and I dont totally disagree...but thats why we count the votes!

jcrmoon42 · Post by **jcrmoon42** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:09 pm

Lee Smith could have made that argument for quite a while, and he was a better pitcher than Gunga. He never even got a sniff.

So, on that note, why isn't Zebediah Williams getting more love? He was a pretty average hitter for most of his career but leads the #2 guy in steals by 128! Shouldn't he have a similar argument to Gunga? Except there isn't an award named for him. Perhaps there should be.

By the same token, Emile Santos has nearly 100 more doubles than the #2 guy on the list, and nobody is going to break that record for quite a while. More than that, he was quite a bit above average as a hitter and a pretty good fielder to boot. He barely stays on the ballot most years.

Luke Zalusky had 41 more triples than #2 and 90 more than the highest currently active player. He also stole 865 bases and played a nice infield while being an above average hitter. He stopped making appearances on the ballot, because he kept finding himself at the bottom.

Meanwhile, Joe Belinda has no problem getting in even though he was not as good a hitter as Santos, not much better than Zalusky, had no speed and no defensive value. What he did have was 508 homers.

7teen · Post by **7teen** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:23 am

jcrmoon42 wrote:Lee Smith could have made that argument for quite a while, and he was a better pitcher than Gunga. He never even got a sniff.

So, on that note, why isn't Zebediah Williams getting more love? He was a pretty average hitter for most of his career but leads the #2 guy in steals by 128! Shouldn't he have a similar argument to Gunga? Except there isn't an award named for him. Perhaps there should be.

By the same token, Emile Santos has nearly 100 more doubles than the #2 guy on the list, and nobody is going to break that record for quite a while. More than that, he was quite a bit above average as a hitter and a pretty good fielder to boot. He barely stays on the ballot most years.

Luke Zalusky had 41 more triples than #2 and 90 more than the highest currently active player. He also stole 865 bases and played a nice infield while being an above average hitter. He stopped making appearances on the ballot, because he kept finding himself at the bottom.

Meanwhile, Joe Belinda has no problem getting in even though he was not as good a hitter as Santos, not much better than Zalusky, had no speed and no defensive value. What he did have was 508 homers.

Al-Hoot · Post by **Al-Hoot** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:44 am

Zebediah Williams topped my ballot this year.

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It is difficult for a GM who's been in the league a relatively short time to get excited about ranking names of players whose careers entirely predate those of the GM.

jcrmoon42 · Post by **jcrmoon42** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:57 pm

You don't have to get excited about it! That is optional.

Al-Hoot wrote:Zebediah Williams topped my ballot this year.

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It is difficult for a GM who's been in the league a relatively short time to get excited about ranking names of players whose careers entirely predate those of the GM.

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