2036, Draft Order

Rule 4 (Amateur) and Rule 5 (unprotected minor leaguers) Drafts.
- Also the history of the now defunct EBA-related Rule 6 and Rule 7 Drafts.
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2036, Draft Order

Post by recte44 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:09 am

2036 BBA Draft Order
1 Boise
2 Wichita
3 Nashville
4 Hawaii
5 Valencia
6 Edmonton
7 San Antonio
8 Des Moines
9 Huntsville
10 Atlantic City
11 Vancouver
12 Brooklyn
13 Madison
14 Mexico City
15 Charm City
16 Phoenix
17 Omaha
18 Seattle
19 Long Beach
20 Louisville
21 Twin Cities
22 Montreal
23 New Orleans
24 Calgary
25 Las Vegas
26 California
27 San Fernando
28 Jacksonville
29 Rockville
30 Yellow Springs
BBA Draft 2036 Pre-Comp.xlsx
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Re: 2036, Draft Order

Post by GoldenOne » Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:42 pm

I'm not a big fan of how this turned out. According to Expansion Poll #5, there were only 5 teams that answered Yes to - "Are expansion teams being positioned in subsequent drafts properly relative to other less competitive teams?" You had 3 that said No and 11 that were not aware of how the teams were being positioned (the category I fell into.) It was also stated in the set-up for the poll that "Also, I'm not really looking to start a huge debate about various things. There will be time for that later." I dont recall much debate about this topic. There was however, some discussion of this topic in a couple of the other Expansion Polls.

Please see Expansion Poll #4 where it seemed a few teams had comments about the expansion teams draft position in future years.

Also, there were comments from a couple of other teams in Expansion Poll #1 about how the expansion teams should be addressed in subsequent drafts.

Yes, I'm biased because I am getting screwed. The Goats could finish in dead-last place again in 2036 and still not have the #1 pick next season. The Goats were horrible when I took over early in the 2034 season. Sure, I've made a few bad moves that havent helped my team along the way, but I was in a bad way when I took over and was immediately going to lose the #1 pick, and even the #2 pick(!), in my first draft? That was not part of The Plan. Yes, bad timing but you also have the fact that most teams felt the expansion draft was a fairly favorable to the two "new" GMs. That's another thing too - the GMs of the Expansion Teams already had an unfair advantage because of how long they had been in the league; they already knew all the players.

If you wanted to use their first season record to count as year 1 and 2 and leave year 3 as a zero, I could probably live with that. I'd still only end up with the #2 pick this season, but at least that has some sort of semblance of being fair. Or, if you keep their first year total the same for all 3 years, you get a much different scenario that I'm sure a few other teams would be happy with as well.
Order Wins 2035 Wins 2034 Wins 2033 Weighted
3 Nashville 45 56 66 52.5
1 Boise 59 59 59 59
4 Hawaii 63 47 75 60.6
5 Valencia 61 66 59 62.1
6 Edmonton 65 65 54 62.8
7 San Antonio 57 72 64 62.9
2 Wichita 67 67 67 67
8 Des Moines 78 62 72 72

Okay, even venting from me. I'm sure the #3 pick should still be a decent player but the drop off in rounds 2+ should see some more significance between each spot. No matter what happens this time, I think there should be more public discussion and buy-in on the rules for the next expansion draft as well as how future draft orders are determined. Just remember, the next time it could be your team in a spot similar to the Goats.
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Re: 2036, Draft Order

Post by recte44 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:16 pm

This was announced and the same way we did it last time.

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Re: 2036, Draft Order

Post by GoldenOne » Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:39 pm

recte44 wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:16 pm
This was announced and the same way we did it last time.
To my knowledge, this was the first time it was announce:
Lane wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:01 am
Expansion teams will have the top picks.
Two days ago. The polls went up at the beginning of August. I know I've asked about draft order (granted (granted, inside of other posts) at least a couple of times and never got a response until this past Tuesday. Seems like there had been enough comments within the polls to warrant a little but of a discussion. Seems like more than 1-2 felt like the last time was not necessarily the best choice then either. Guess not. Oh well.
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Re: 2036, Draft Order

Post by bcslouck » Thu Sep 06, 2018 2:02 pm

recte44 wrote:
Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:24 pm
d. Expansion Draft will be serpentine, first pick decided by a coin flip.
e. Expansion teams will draft first and second overall in the next Amateur Draft, in the opposite order of the Expansion Draft.
I see that but I don't see anything that answers what Brett is talking about. I don't care either way. The way it appears we are doing now is how it was done the first time. So at least there is precedent.
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Re: 2036, Draft Order

Post by GoldenOne » Thu Sep 06, 2018 2:05 pm

Got it. Here is what it says -

8. Here are the details of the upcoming Expansion Draft:
a. Players with less than 3 years of pro service time will be auto-protected.
b. Current teams will be able to protect 19 players per team.
c. Each current team will lose 3 players, which will give each expansion team 42 players total to start with.
d. Expansion Draft will be serpentine, first pick decided by a coin flip.
e. Expansion teams will draft first and second overall in the next Amateur Draft, in the opposite order of the Expansion Draft.

It was never mentioned, discussed, answered anytime I asked, hinted at, referred to, etc. anywhere except in the Polls. If this is the post that actually answers the question, why was it even brought up in the Polls?

Anyway, it obviously doesnt matter because it wont be changed so I'll move on and sulk (steam?) quietly for a while.
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Re: 2036, Draft Order

Post by Spiccoli » Thu Sep 06, 2018 2:07 pm

bcslouck wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 2:02 pm
recte44 wrote:
Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:24 pm
d. Expansion Draft will be serpentine, first pick decided by a coin flip.
e. Expansion teams will draft first and second overall in the next Amateur Draft, in the opposite order of the Expansion Draft.
I see that but I don't see anything that answers what Brett is talking about. I don't care either way. The way it appears we are doing now is how it was done the first time. So at least there is precedent.
Well... Twin Cities got the 1st pick in it's second season and picked......................

Duane Whitney Jr.... lol

Oh boy
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Re: 2036, Draft Order

Post by bcslouck » Thu Sep 06, 2018 2:32 pm

Spiccoli wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 2:07 pm
Well... Twin Cities got the 1st pick in it's second season and picked......................

Duane Whitney Jr.... lol

Oh boy
I wanted to draft him to. Thanks! Not that my picks was much better. lol
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Re: 2036, Draft Order

Post by Lane » Thu Sep 06, 2018 2:34 pm

GoldenOne wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 2:05 pm
Got it. Here is what it says -

8. Here are the details of the upcoming Expansion Draft:
a. Players with less than 3 years of pro service time will be auto-protected.
b. Current teams will be able to protect 19 players per team.
c. Each current team will lose 3 players, which will give each expansion team 42 players total to start with.
d. Expansion Draft will be serpentine, first pick decided by a coin flip.
e. Expansion teams will draft first and second overall in the next Amateur Draft, in the opposite order of the Expansion Draft.

It was never mentioned, discussed, answered anytime I asked, hinted at, referred to, etc. anywhere except in the Polls. If this is the post that actually answers the question, why was it even brought up in the Polls?

Anyway, it obviously doesnt matter because it wont be changed so I'll move on and sulk (steam?) quietly for a while.
If you look at the polls again, they were meant as a discussion for the next round of expansion (to 32 teams). They were not relevant to the details of the most recent expansion (Boise/Wichita).

As Matt directed you to, the details of the Boise/Wichita were explained in the announcement and were not subject to debate or change after being announced. League evolution like this requires a lot of work and there's a lot of discussion that goes on with the governing board before announcements go out to the league.
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Re: 2036, Draft Order

Post by GoldenOne » Thu Sep 06, 2018 2:56 pm

Lane wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 2:34 pm
GoldenOne wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 2:05 pm
Got it. Here is what it says -

8. Here are the details of the upcoming Expansion Draft:
a. Players with less than 3 years of pro service time will be auto-protected.
b. Current teams will be able to protect 19 players per team.
c. Each current team will lose 3 players, which will give each expansion team 42 players total to start with.
d. Expansion Draft will be serpentine, first pick decided by a coin flip.
e. Expansion teams will draft first and second overall in the next Amateur Draft, in the opposite order of the Expansion Draft.

It was never mentioned, discussed, answered anytime I asked, hinted at, referred to, etc. anywhere except in the Polls. If this is the post that actually answers the question, why was it even brought up in the Polls?

Anyway, it obviously doesnt matter because it wont be changed so I'll move on and sulk (steam?) quietly for a while.
If you look at the polls again, they were meant as a discussion for the next round of expansion (to 32 teams). They were not relevant to the details of the most recent expansion (Boise/Wichita).

As Matt directed you to, the details of the Boise/Wichita were explained in the announcement and were not subject to debate or change after being announced. League evolution like this requires a lot of work and there's a lot of discussion that goes on with the governing board before announcements go out to the league.
Sorry, no. See above. I'm not saying you guys dont work hard or have a lot of discussions about everything but if this was such an easy answer why was it never answered in the other times I asked about it? Heck, I even put up a projected draft order during the season and nobody commented about my math then.

If you guys just leave it, I'll end up going away quietly and moving on to focus my angst elsewhere. Its done, right? So leave it be and I'll go quiet about it.
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Re: 2036, Draft Order

Post by Lane » Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:17 pm

"No" to what, exactly?

We don't have time to go dig up the expansion announcement for you when you ask a question. You could have easily found it on your own.

Many of us have inherited crappy situations on our teams. Does it suck for you to get the 3rd pick instead of the 1st pick? Sure. Here's a thought:

If you're not happy with your 1st round pick this year, don't sign him. Wait till next year, and have the 3rd pick plus whatever pick you end up with. Maybe you're still in line for the 1st pick next year. That way you at least get a couple looks at prospects.

The difference between picking 1st and 3rd in one amateur draft is so unlikely to have a significant impact on the future of your franchise that I'm really not seeing why it's so upsetting. My only 1-1 pick was Kade Fucking Cummins in 2028. That wasn't exactly a success. In fact, I'd have been much better off if I drafted 3rd and gotten Mons Raider!
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Re: 2036, Draft Order

Post by GoldenOne » Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:40 pm

The "No" was because you were wrong. "...the details of the Boise/Wichita were explained in the announcement..." That is wrong. And Recte already did dig up the expansion announcement and link it to this discussion. And gee, there are still questions because it didnt explain what was going to happen in years 2 and 3 after we expanded.

I have no doubt almost everyone took over a crappy situation. I would imagine that's generally why the majority of people leave when they do. But does everyone come in and is immediately told that, although you should have 1st pick when following the rules within the Constitution, we adding some teams so there is virtually no chance you will have the first pick for the next 3 seasons?

"The difference between picking 1st and 3rd in one amateur draft is so unlikely to have a significant impact on the future of your franchise that I'm really not seeing why it's so upsetting. My only 1-1 pick was Kade Fucking Cummins in 2028. That wasn't exactly a success. In fact, I'd have been much better off if I drafted 3rd and gotten Mons Raider!"

Okay, sure. But that is you making the selection and it not working out. Give me the pick and let me screw it up - I can live with that. When you pick third, you dont get that opportunity because there are already two players chosen that you dont get to pick from. Oh yeah, that's going to happen for you next year as well.

Okay, I'm done now. I will not respond to this discussion any further. You cant point to anywhere where it was ever explained how the drafts would happen after the 2035 season but the GB has already made its decision, so we move on. Looking forward to the 2038 season when we expand again and see how that works out. The Plan will be working by then so it wont be the Goats getting kicked in the shins by then.
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Re: 2036, Draft Order

Post by usnspecialist » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:07 pm

I do have to say, while precident was seemingly established with the previous expansion as far as how draft order would be handled there are multiple owners (myself and Brett included) who came after that and this don't have it as a reference point. While it is easy to say "look back at the past you lazy bums and you will find the answer", the expansion draft was handled differently this time so it is not unreasonable to think the draft might be handled differently.

The initial expansion post was very clear about how year 1 would be handled (which I think is glaringly obvious to anyone as the "right way" to handle it), but did not mention years 2 or 3 at all (which reasonable people can come up multiple perfectly logical ways to handle). That (I think) is where the confusion came in and caused this minor kerfuffle.
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Re: 2036, Draft Order

Post by recte44 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:37 pm

I can see all of your angles. Perhaps we didn't do the best job of explaining exactly how we would handle the expansion teams this time, but our process for weighting the draft picks has never changed.

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Re: 2036, Draft Order

Post by udlb58 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:27 pm

I don't have any skin in the game, as no matter where the teams are positioned, they won't change our positioning. However, 50% of people responded "I don't know how expansion teams are being positioned" to the question: Are expansion teams being positioned in subsequent drafts properly relative to other less competitive teams? I'd say it most definitely was NOT made clear. I just hope the next expansion process is less rushed than this last one.
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Re: 2036, Draft Order

Post by RonCo » Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:44 pm

We need to do a better job of communicating. :)
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Re: 2036, Draft Order

Post by felipe » Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:09 am

Wichita rocks

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Re: 2036, Draft Order

Post by starfox64 » Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:21 am

Lotta pressure on this first pick. When is the draft pool announced/when does the draft begin?

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Re: 2036, Draft Order

Post by Fat Nige » Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:35 pm

You’ll find it on a tab on the BBA transactions tab. Go to the off season tab and look along the tabs there, on of them will be the draft pool when released. The draft order tab is already there although incorrect lol
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