Why aren't Wild Pitches & Passed Balls errors?

[cheekimonk]

I posted this on ORB2 but thought I'd get opinions here as well...

No matter how high I've ever considered my baseball IQ, this has never made sense to me. I get that the scorer has to first score a Wild Pitch OR Passed Ball and that they don't always have an impact on the game (with no runners on base, for example). I also get that scoring a Wild Pitch as an error would seem to get the pitcher off the hook for an earned run, but that would seem to be easily scored. Runners get credit for a stolen base when they advance on a WP/PB (only 1, so not for stealing 2nd AND 3rd...at least I think that's how it's scored). Any insight?

[Al-Hoot]

Well, they are different categories of bad things.

Whether they should be counted into ERA is a different story.

[cheekimonk]

Well, they are different categories of bad things.

Whether they should be counted into ERA is a different story.

Right. I guess I don't see the difference between an E4 where a second baseman boots a grounder and a runner, say, advances to 3rd as a result and a WP or PB where a runner does the same thing.

Except, and this may be the key (it honestly just occurred to me) fielding errors are considered in ALL cases as if they would have been outs if executed properly. Hence, if that E4 occurred with 1 out and then an out is recorded subsequently, every run after that is unearned (since that out should have been the 3rd out of the inning). WP and PB would not have resulted in an out.

[Al-Hoot]

When was ERA first tabulated? Maybe at the time there were so many passes balls and wild pitches that they would have really "done a number" on pitchers' ERAs if calculated as other errors.

I mean, through the dead ball era, if you had a 1 ERA you were a good pitcher, if you had a 2 ERA, you were mediocre, and if you couldn't get guys out and had a 3 ERA you were put in the bull pen.

[JimBob2232]

I always wondered why e-1 didn't count in era calculations as well...

[cheekimonk]

I always wondered why e-1 didn't count in era calculations as well...

Because I could artificially inflate my ERA. If I'm a pitcher and I get in a jam I could just dorf everything hit or thrown at me and, shazam, no more earned runs. It's covered under the definition of "earned run" anyway...just as a run can be charged to your pitching arm, it can be charged to your glove, too.

[Al-Hoot]

Do you mean artificially deflate his ERA?

[cheekimonk]

Do you mean artificially deflate his ERA?

Yes. Artificially make it better by turning earned runs into unearned runs.

[Al-Hoot]

I know what artificially means.

But you wrote inflate, not deflate. This is the point I was asking about...

[cheekimonk]

I know what artificially means.

But you wrote inflate, not deflate. This is the point I was asking about...

LOL...I guess ancient pitcher's icewater in the veins runs deep.

[7teen]

How about this scenario...

A 1B drops a foul ball attempt in which he should have caught. Official scorer rules it an error.

Pitcher pitches a perfect game, or does he? Does the dropped foul ball attempt, resulting in an error, end the perfect game attempt?

[mrbornac]

How about this scenario...

A 1B drops a foul ball attempt in which he should have caught. Official scorer rules it an error.

Pitcher pitches a perfect game, or does he? Does the dropped foul ball attempt, resulting in an error, end the perfect game attempt?

I don't think so, I think it's just 27 up, 27 down, perfect game... I think....

[7teen]

How about this scenario...

A 1B drops a foul ball attempt in which he should have caught. Official scorer rules it an error.

Pitcher pitches a perfect game, or does he? Does the dropped foul ball attempt, resulting in an error, end the perfect game attempt?

I don't think so, I think it's just 27 up, 27 down, perfect game... I think....

But it's a dropped FOUL BALL. Let's say the batter goes on to Strike Out after the missed foul ball. It is still 27 up, 27 down.

[Al-Hoot]

27 up 27 down, with nobody reaching base and no errors by his team that allows a runner.

A dropped foul ball error would not disallow a perfect game.

[cheekimonk]

How about this scenario...

A 1B drops a foul ball attempt in which he should have caught. Official scorer rules it an error.

Pitcher pitches a perfect game, or does he? Does the dropped foul ball attempt, resulting in an error, end the perfect game attempt?

I don't think so, I think it's just 27 up, 27 down, perfect game... I think....

But it's a dropped FOUL BALL. Let's say the batter goes on to Strike Out after the missed foul ball. It is still 27 up, 27 down.

Dropped foul balls are never scored as errors because they are not live. No runners can advance on a dropped foul ball, though they can if the ball is caught.


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[Al-Hoot]

A dropped foul ball can be called an error.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/bullp ... _territory