Ranking the Pennant Winners

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Re: Ranking the Pennant Winners

Post by Dington » Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:55 am

usnspecialist wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:55 am
RANK: 79
YEAR: 2008
TEAM: Tampa Bay Rays
TOP WAR: 330.5
Playoff Results: Lost World Series 4-1

TOTALS:
Total.PNG

Top Offense:
Offense.PNG

Top Pitching:
Pitching.PNG

Others of note:
Others.PNG

Comments: A true example of the sum being greater than its parts, this Rays team won the AL East and made it all the way to the World Series before phalling to the Philadelphia Phillies. Despite being known as a swiss army knife that team, Ben Zobrist only appeared in 62 games and had 227 PA, falling well short of Willy Aybar’s 362 which would have given this team a much-needed WAR boost. Likewise on the pitching side, young phenom David Price was brought up in September and pitched 5 games in relief, before establishing himself as an ace in later years. This team was carried by a bunch of good but not great players on offense centered around a young star in Evan Longoria, while the starting pitching staff was extremely young but centered around guys who became known for bouncing around the league (Matt Garza 5 teams in 12 years, 4 teams in 13 years, Edwin Jackson (14!!! teams in 17 years).
I feel like every player had a career year...but Troy Percival was there!?!
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Re: Ranking the Pennant Winners

Post by usnspecialist » Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:30 am

Dington wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:55 am
usnspecialist wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:55 am
RANK: 79
YEAR: 2008
TEAM: Tampa Bay Rays
TOP WAR: 330.5
Playoff Results: Lost World Series 4-1

TOTALS:
Total.PNG

Top Offense:
Offense.PNG

Top Pitching:
Pitching.PNG

Others of note:
Others.PNG

Comments: A true example of the sum being greater than its parts, this Rays team won the AL East and made it all the way to the World Series before phalling to the Philadelphia Phillies. Despite being known as a swiss army knife that team, Ben Zobrist only appeared in 62 games and had 227 PA, falling well short of Willy Aybar’s 362 which would have given this team a much-needed WAR boost. Likewise on the pitching side, young phenom David Price was brought up in September and pitched 5 games in relief, before establishing himself as an ace in later years. This team was carried by a bunch of good but not great players on offense centered around a young star in Evan Longoria, while the starting pitching staff was extremely young but centered around guys who became known for bouncing around the league (Matt Garza 5 teams in 12 years, 4 teams in 13 years, Edwin Jackson (14!!! teams in 17 years).
I feel like every player had a career year...but Troy Percival was there!?!
Troy bounced around a bit at the end if I recall.
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Re: Ranking the Pennant Winners

Post by RonCo » Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:33 pm

When Todd Worrell was good, he was very, very good. And Willie McGee was the perfect player for the Mid-80s Cardinals. Also, Tony Pena was a true star at catcher for awhile. Not quite the aura of Molina these days, but a very good player. This is fun. These "lower" teams show that clubs don't have to be perfect to win big.
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Re: Ranking the Pennant Winners

Post by usnspecialist » Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:46 am

RANK: 76
YEAR: 2002
TEAM: Anaheim Angels
TOP WAR: 390.1
PLAYOFF RESULTS: Defeated San Francisco Giants 4-3 in World Series

TOTALS:
Total.PNG
Total.PNG (12.98 KiB) Viewed 98720 times
Top Offense:
BATTERS.PNG
BATTERS.PNG (10.98 KiB) Viewed 98720 times
Top Pitching:
PITCHING.PNG
PITCHING.PNG (9.72 KiB) Viewed 98720 times
Others of note:
OTHERS.PNG
OTHERS.PNG (5.4 KiB) Viewed 98720 times

Comments: Seems crazy to remember that despite their oft-noted futility with Mike Trout, the Angels have won a title in recent times and they did it with a bunch of “o ya THAT guy” players. There were no true superstars on this team, but a bunch of above average guys who came together to get the job done. Worth noting that despite being a breakout playoff star, Francisco Rodriguez only threw 5.2 IP in 5 games during the regular season, so his WAR falls into the garbage pile for the purposes of this study. Also buried on the bench was a 24 year old rookie in Chone Figgins who had a pretty good career for a relatively late bloomer. Maybe the current administration in Anaheim should look to the past for a model of how to win. Having a superstar is great, but if you don’t put solid guys around him you aren’t going anywhere when it matters.
Randy Weigand

Havana Sugar Kings/San Fernando Bears: 32-50 (1608-1481)
Des Moines Kernels: 52-

League Champion- 34
JL Champion- 34
FL Champion- 36, 37
JL Southern- 34
FL Pacific- 37, 39
Wild Card- 33, 35, 36, 40, 43

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Re: Ranking the Pennant Winners

Post by usnspecialist » Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:13 am

RANK: 75
YEAR: 2003
TEAM: Florida Marlins
TOP WAR: 395.6
PLAYOFF RESULTS: Defeated New York Yankees in World Series 4-2

TOTALS:
TOTALS.PNG
TOTALS.PNG (12.86 KiB) Viewed 98716 times
Top Offense:
BATTING.PNG
BATTING.PNG (11.11 KiB) Viewed 98716 times
Top Pitching:
PITCHING.PNG
PITCHING.PNG (10.53 KiB) Viewed 98716 times
Others of note:
OTHERS.PNG
OTHERS.PNG (5.25 KiB) Viewed 98716 times
Comments: I had a good opening joke for this section, but Steve Bartman knocked it away and then Alex Gonzalez booted it when I tried to track it down. In all seriousness this Marlins team was super young overall (with only 1 pitcher who mattered at age 30, and Pudge Rodriguez being the old man of the lineup at 31), they infamously got their way past the Cubs and then upset a star-studded Yankees team that (spoiler alert) is significantly higher on this list. Having the Hall of Famer behind the plate and a should-be Hall of Famer starting his career in Miguel Cabrera helps, but this team was very much boom or bust on offense. As for pitching, with the exception of rookie Josh Beckett nobody here amounted to much.
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Havana Sugar Kings/San Fernando Bears: 32-50 (1608-1481)
Des Moines Kernels: 52-

League Champion- 34
JL Champion- 34
FL Champion- 36, 37
JL Southern- 34
FL Pacific- 37, 39
Wild Card- 33, 35, 36, 40, 43

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Re: Ranking the Pennant Winners

Post by shoeless.db » Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:14 am

Darin Erstad mention. Best athlete I ever witnessed play any sport. He also had A+ intangibles.
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Re: Ranking the Pennant Winners

Post by usnspecialist » Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:23 am

shoeless.db wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:14 am
Darin Erstad mention. Best athlete I ever witnessed play any sport. He also had A+ intangibles.
that angels team was full of guys like him baseball wise. Probably none was as good of a punter though
Randy Weigand

Havana Sugar Kings/San Fernando Bears: 32-50 (1608-1481)
Des Moines Kernels: 52-

League Champion- 34
JL Champion- 34
FL Champion- 36, 37
JL Southern- 34
FL Pacific- 37, 39
Wild Card- 33, 35, 36, 40, 43

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Re: Ranking the Pennant Winners

Post by shoeless.db » Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:25 am

usnspecialist wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:23 am
shoeless.db wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:14 am
Darin Erstad mention. Best athlete I ever witnessed play any sport. He also had A+ intangibles.
that angels team was full of guys like him baseball wise. Probably none was as good of a punter though
Or hockey player, as he was Mr. Hockey as a prep senior, also. Many thought he was a better hockey player than baseball player.
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Re: Ranking the Pennant Winners

Post by usnspecialist » Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:26 am

shoeless.db wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:25 am
usnspecialist wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:23 am
shoeless.db wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:14 am
Darin Erstad mention. Best athlete I ever witnessed play any sport. He also had A+ intangibles.
that angels team was full of guys like him baseball wise. Probably none was as good of a punter though
Or hockey player, as he was Mr. Hockey as a prep senior, also. Many thought he was a better hockey player than baseball player.
didn't know that, but he wont even be the best hockey player in this thread. That will go to Tom Glavine who was drafted in the 4th round ahead of (among others) Luc Robitaille and Brett Hull.
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Havana Sugar Kings/San Fernando Bears: 32-50 (1608-1481)
Des Moines Kernels: 52-

League Champion- 34
JL Champion- 34
FL Champion- 36, 37
JL Southern- 34
FL Pacific- 37, 39
Wild Card- 33, 35, 36, 40, 43

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Re: Ranking the Pennant Winners

Post by shoeless.db » Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:36 am

usnspecialist wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:26 am
shoeless.db wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:25 am
usnspecialist wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:23 am


that angels team was full of guys like him baseball wise. Probably none was as good of a punter though
Or hockey player, as he was Mr. Hockey as a prep senior, also. Many thought he was a better hockey player than baseball player.
didn't know that, but he wont even be the best hockey player in this thread. That will go to Tom Glavine who was drafted in the 4th round ahead of (among others) Luc Robitaille and Brett Hull.
I'm trying to withhold my homer-ism by not arguing that Erstad could have been a #1 draft pick in hockey if he went that route. He was that dominating in a sport where we actually produce professional athletes.
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Re: Ranking the Pennant Winners

Post by Ted » Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:10 pm

I really like that Angels team. Probably no surprise as that's what my teams look like. Good pitchers, good athletic hitters, but no real offensive superstars. Just solid "remeber-some-guys".
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Re: Ranking the Pennant Winners

Post by Ted » Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:11 pm

For me, the 2003 playoff run made Pudge's career. Being an NL guy, I knew who he was, but never saw him play much. I just remember him coming up huge in the playoffs that year over and over. Just a one man will to win.
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Re: Ranking the Pennant Winners

Post by Dington » Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:09 pm

usnspecialist wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:46 am
RANK: 76
YEAR: 2002
TEAM: Anaheim Angels
TOP WAR: 390.1
PLAYOFF RESULTS: Defeated San Francisco Giants 4-3 in World Series

TOTALS:
Total.PNG

Top Offense:
BATTERS.PNG

Top Pitching:
PITCHING.PNG

Others of note:
OTHERS.PNG

Comments: Seems crazy to remember that despite their oft-noted futility with Mike Trout, the Angels have won a title in recent times and they did it with a bunch of “o ya THAT guy” players. There were no true superstars on this team, but a bunch of above average guys who came together to get the job done. Worth noting that despite being a breakout playoff star, Francisco Rodriguez only threw 5.2 IP in 5 games during the regular season, so his WAR falls into the garbage pile for the purposes of this study. Also buried on the bench was a 24 year old rookie in Chone Figgins who had a pretty good career for a relatively late bloomer. Maybe the current administration in Anaheim should look to the past for a model of how to win. Having a superstar is great, but if you don’t put solid guys around him you aren’t going anywhere when it matters.
Wow. Erstad was a 32 WAR player?! I always liked him, but didn't realize he was that valuable.
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Re: Ranking the Pennant Winners

Post by usnspecialist » Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:32 am

RANK: 74
YEAR: 1994
TEAM: Montreal Expos
TOP WAR: 407.2
PLAYOFF RESULTS: None (“le sigh”)
TOTALS:
Overall.PNG
Overall.PNG (20.89 KiB) Viewed 98683 times
Top Offense:
Offense.PNG
Offense.PNG (15.46 KiB) Viewed 98683 times
Top Pitching:
Pitching.PNG
Pitching.PNG (13.5 KiB) Viewed 98683 times
Others of note:
Other.PNG
Other.PNG (6.54 KiB) Viewed 98683 times
Comments: So for all this talk about the 94 expos being a mind blowing team, they really weren’t? I mean sure they were super young and had 2 HOF guys in Pedro and Larry Walker, so it seemed like they had all the potential in the world, but not a ton of it panned out. Sure guys like Grissom, Alou and Floyd had decent careers, but with all of the retrospective hype around this team frankly I was thinking I would see them a LOT higher. Also in retrospect a microscopically thin team.
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Havana Sugar Kings/San Fernando Bears: 32-50 (1608-1481)
Des Moines Kernels: 52-

League Champion- 34
JL Champion- 34
FL Champion- 36, 37
JL Southern- 34
FL Pacific- 37, 39
Wild Card- 33, 35, 36, 40, 43

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Re: Ranking the Pennant Winners

Post by usnspecialist » Tue Oct 20, 2020 2:39 pm

RANK: 73
YEAR: 1984
TEAM: San Diego Padres
TOP WAR: 408.6
PLAYOFF RESULTS: Lost in World Series 4-0 to Detroit Tigers
TOTALS:
Totals.PNG
Totals.PNG (12.89 KiB) Viewed 98673 times
Top Offense:
Offense.PNG
Offense.PNG (11.07 KiB) Viewed 98673 times
Top Pitching:
Pitching.PNG
Pitching.PNG (9.33 KiB) Viewed 98673 times
Others of note:
Others.PNG
Others.PNG (3.1 KiB) Viewed 98673 times
Comments: I mean for a team that was thoroughly mediocre (relatively) and got smacked around like Roy Horn by the Detroit Tigers in the World Series, this team actually had some legitimate talent on it. Tony Gwynn was in the early stages of a legendary HOF career, and Goose Gossage was nearing the end of the peak of his powers (before going on to star as Tom Cruise’s RIO in Top Gun). Hall of Very good guys Steve Garvey and Graig Nettles provided some veteran savvy and Ed Whitson was a useful arm before he went to the Yankees and proceeded to forget how to pich. Bonus points for having another potential HOFer stashed on the bench in Bruce Bochy, who apparently had not discovered the even year magic yet.
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Havana Sugar Kings/San Fernando Bears: 32-50 (1608-1481)
Des Moines Kernels: 52-

League Champion- 34
JL Champion- 34
FL Champion- 36, 37
JL Southern- 34
FL Pacific- 37, 39
Wild Card- 33, 35, 36, 40, 43

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Re: Ranking the Pennant Winners

Post by usnspecialist » Tue Oct 20, 2020 2:56 pm

RANK: 72
YEAR: 2000
TEAM: New York Mets
TOP WAR: 412.5
PLAYOFF RESULTS: Lost World Series 4-1 to New York Yankees
TOTALS:
Totals.PNG
Totals.PNG (12.62 KiB) Viewed 98673 times
Top Offense:
Offense.PNG
Offense.PNG (10.71 KiB) Viewed 98673 times
Top Pitching:
Pitching.PNG
Pitching.PNG (9.36 KiB) Viewed 98673 times
Others of note:
Others.PNG
Others.PNG (4.29 KiB) Viewed 98673 times
Comments: One of the older teams on this list, this was an offense built around the talents of Mike Piazza and a few reasonable supporting cast guys (even as a former White Sox fan who grew up in the 90s, I was stunned to see Robin Ventura that high, although that number might also represent his managerial IQ). The pitching staff is basically a 2 man operation with Mike Hampton and Al Leiter, as well as some decent bullpen guys in Armando Benitez and an ancient John Franco. Special mention also goes to batshit crazy Turk Wendell and Pat Mahomes, who unlike his son could NOT get his team over the hump in the one that mattered. The garbage WAR total looks impressive, until you realize that out of the 17!!! guys who counted towards that offensive total, only 2 of them had a WAR of more than 5.1. Of course when one of those is Rickey Henderson, your total looks pretty damn good. As Rickey would say, “Rickey Henderson don’t need a supporting cast, Rickey can do it all himself”.
Randy Weigand

Havana Sugar Kings/San Fernando Bears: 32-50 (1608-1481)
Des Moines Kernels: 52-

League Champion- 34
JL Champion- 34
FL Champion- 36, 37
JL Southern- 34
FL Pacific- 37, 39
Wild Card- 33, 35, 36, 40, 43

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Re: Ranking the Pennant Winners

Post by usnspecialist » Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:17 pm

RANK: T70
YEAR: 2008
TEAM: Philadelphia Phillies
TOP WAR: 421
PLAYOFF RESULTS: Won World Series 4-1 over Tampa Bay Rays
TOTALS:
Overall.PNG
Overall.PNG (12.75 KiB) Viewed 98671 times
Top Offense:
Offense.PNG
Offense.PNG (10.42 KiB) Viewed 98671 times
Top Pitching:
Ptiching.PNG
Ptiching.PNG (9.31 KiB) Viewed 98671 times
Others of note:
Others.PNG
Others.PNG (4.98 KiB) Viewed 98671 times
Comments: With the slotting in of the Phillies here, we officially have the worst team that was BETTER than their opponent. The offense of this team was structured around a slew of guys in their late 20s, some of whom are underrated historically (Chase Utley), some of whom are horrifically overrated (Ryan Howard) and some of whom are pretty properly rated (Jimmy Rollins). The pitching staff was headed by a likely Hall of Very Good member in Cole Hamels and the ageless Jamie Moyer with frankly not much beyond them besides a few solid bullpen guys in Brad Lidge and Ryan Madson.
Randy Weigand

Havana Sugar Kings/San Fernando Bears: 32-50 (1608-1481)
Des Moines Kernels: 52-

League Champion- 34
JL Champion- 34
FL Champion- 36, 37
JL Southern- 34
FL Pacific- 37, 39
Wild Card- 33, 35, 36, 40, 43

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Re: Ranking the Pennant Winners

Post by Jwalk100 » Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:17 pm

Eric (Win, Place and) Show gave up #4192 then pouted about it.

Gary Templeton was swapped for The Wizard.

Tim Flannery worked with Bochy teams for years.
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Re: Ranking the Pennant Winners

Post by usnspecialist » Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:21 pm

Jwalk100 wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:17 pm
Eric (Win, Place and) Show gave up #4192 then pouted about it.

Gary Templeton was swapped for The Wizard.

Tim Flannery worked with Bochy teams for years.
Ron Roenicke was a longtime coach/manager as well
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Havana Sugar Kings/San Fernando Bears: 32-50 (1608-1481)
Des Moines Kernels: 52-

League Champion- 34
JL Champion- 34
FL Champion- 36, 37
JL Southern- 34
FL Pacific- 37, 39
Wild Card- 33, 35, 36, 40, 43

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Re: Ranking the Pennant Winners

Post by usnspecialist » Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:37 pm

RANK: T70
YEAR: 1992
TEAM: Atlanta Braves
TOP WAR: 421
PLAYOFF RESULTS: Lost World Series 4-2 to Toronto Blue Jays
TOTALS:
OVERALL.PNG
OVERALL.PNG (12.83 KiB) Viewed 98665 times
Top Offense:
OFFENSE.PNG
OFFENSE.PNG (10.39 KiB) Viewed 98665 times
Top Pitching:
PITCHING.PNG
PITCHING.PNG (9.62 KiB) Viewed 98665 times
Others of note:
OTHERS.PNG
OTHERS.PNG (7.05 KiB) Viewed 98665 times
Comments: A very pitching heavy team (and this is before they doubled down on that strength and added Greg Maddux following this season), this is the 2nd part of the back to back World Series losers for the Braves. The infield is one of the weakest you will ever see, and only a solid outfield saves this offense from being a total trainwreck. As mentioned though, pitching steals the show here and justifiably so with Hall of Famers in John Smoltz and Tom Glavine heading the staff and flanked by a youngster that never quite worked out (Steve Avery) and an old warhorse in Charlie Leibrandt. In addition to a flashy youngster named Deion Sanders sneaking into the counting total, stashed on the bench is an intriguing collection of over the hill guys in Lonnie Smith and Jeff Reardon, and some supremely talented youngsters in Javy Lopez, Ryan Klesko and Vinny Castilla.
Randy Weigand

Havana Sugar Kings/San Fernando Bears: 32-50 (1608-1481)
Des Moines Kernels: 52-

League Champion- 34
JL Champion- 34
FL Champion- 36, 37
JL Southern- 34
FL Pacific- 37, 39
Wild Card- 33, 35, 36, 40, 43

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