Ranking the Pennant Winners

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Re: Ranking the Pennant Winners

Post by usnspecialist » Thu Nov 02, 2023 7:04 pm

RANK: 48
YEAR: 1997
TEAM: Florida Marlins
TOP WAR: 508.7
PLAYOFF RESULTS: Won World Series 4-3 over Cleveland Indians
TOTALS:
CATEGORYTOTALRANK
TOP TOTAL WAR508.748
TOP BATTER WAR301.356
TOP PITCHING WAR207.440
TOTAL WAR639.841
TOTAL BATTER WAR404.943
TOTAL PITCHER WAR234.943
GARBAGE TOTAL WAR131.130
GARBAGE BATTER WAR103.621
GARBAGE PITCHER WAR27.549
BATTER AGE28.0055
PITCHER AGE27.5362
TOP BATTER AGE29.3638
TOP PITCHER AGE27.2067
TOP HITTERS:
POSITIONAGENAMEWAR
C25Charles Johnson22.6
1B31Jeff Conine19.5
2B21Luis Castillo29.1
SS20Edgar Rentaria32.4
3B34Bobby Bonilla30.2
LF30Moises Alou39.9
CF34Devon White47.3
RF28Gary Sheffield60.5
BENCH38Jim Eisenreich13.2
BENCH28Kurt Abbot0.5
BENCH34John Cangelosi6.1
TOP PITCHERS:
POSITIONAGENAMEWAR
SP32Kevin Brown67.8
SP27Alex Fernandez28.5
SP31Al Leiter40.0
SP23Tony Saunders2.7
SP29Pat Rapp9.3
SP22Livan Hernandez30.0
RP27Robb Nen15.0
RP25Jay Powell2.8
RP34Dennis Cook10.7
RP22Felix Heredia0.6
OTHERS OF NOTE:
POSITIONAGENAMEWAR
BENCH24Cliff Floyd25.9
BENCH35Darren Daulton23.0
BENCH26Craig Counsell22.4
BENCH21Mark Kotsay21.4
BULLPEN26Rick Helling20.2
BENCH26Gregg Zaun13.7
BENCH22Josh Booty0.0
Comments: The squad best known for being dismantled in the immediate aftermath of their title (only to raise from the ashes 6 years later to win again), the hallmark of this team was a balanced offense anchored by HOFer Gary Sheffield and a very top heavy veteran rotation led by the criminally underrated Kevin Brown (Livan Hernandez was a rookie that year who didn’t come on until late in the year). He is also mostly forgotten now, but older folks will remember Devon White as the silky smooth CF who is probably best known for being a member of the Blue Jays title teams in the early 90s. The bench was full of guys who hadn’t quite popped yet (and well, Darren Daulton) but would have solid careers in their own right.
Randy Weigand

Havana Sugar Kings/San Fernando Bears: 32-50 (1608-1481)
Des Moines Kernels: 52-

League Champion- 34
JL Champion- 34
FL Champion- 36, 37
JL Southern- 34
FL Pacific- 37, 39
Wild Card- 33, 35, 36, 40, 43

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Re: Ranking the Pennant Winners

Post by usnspecialist » Thu Nov 02, 2023 7:25 pm

RANK: 47
YEAR: 1985
TEAM: Kansas City Royals
TOP WAR: 511.4
PLAYOFF RESULTS: Won World Series over St Louis Cardinals 4-3
TOTALS:
CATEGORYTOTALRANK
TOP TOTAL WAR511.447
TOP BATTER WAR298.157
TOP PITCHING WAR213.335
TOTAL WAR575.258
TOTAL BATTER WAR314.162
TOTAL PITCHER WAR261.137
GARBAGE TOTAL WAR63.867
GARBAGE BATTER WAR1676
GARBAGE PITCHER WAR47.832
BATTER AGE30.435
PITCHER AGE27.5756
TOP BATTER AGE30.7314
TOP PITCHER AGE26.6073
TOP HITTERS:
POSITIONAGENAMEWAR
C34Jim Sundberg40.5
1B28Steve Balboni0.9
2B34Frank White34.8
SS27Onix Concepcion0.0
3B32George Brett88.6
LF29Lonnie Smith38.5
CF29Willie Wilson46.1
RF25Darryl Motley0.5
DH39Hal McRae27.9
BENCH34Jorge Orta14.9
BENCH27Pat Sheridan5.4
TOP PITCHERS:
POSITIONAGENAMEWAR
SP28Charlie Leibrandt33.3
SP21Bret Saberhagen58.9
SP23Danny Jackson17.1
SP28Bud Black20.9
SP22Mark Gubicza37.4
RP32Dan Quisenberry24.6
RP30Joe Beckwith2.9
RP25Mike Jones-0.1
RP29Mike LaCoss0.2
RP28Steve Farr18.1
OTHERS OF NOTE:
POSITIONAGENAMEWAR
BULLPEN34Dennis Leonard25.7
BULLPEN37Larry Gura21.4
BENCH32Omar Moreno9.6
Comments: The last good Royals team for a generation after basically a full decade of contention (including some epic battles with the Yankees in the 70s and a World Series loss to the Phillies in 1980), and by the looks of that lineup there were some guys who would have fit in very well with the shitty teams that succeeded them. 3 guys in the starting lineup with a career WAR of <1.0 is not exactly something you expect to see form a World Series winner. Then again, it wasn’t like the bench had much better to offer, as Moreno is the only guy above 5.0 there. The starting rotation was very young and pretty well balanced, with rookie phenom Bret Saberhagen leading the way.
Randy Weigand

Havana Sugar Kings/San Fernando Bears: 32-50 (1608-1481)
Des Moines Kernels: 52-

League Champion- 34
JL Champion- 34
FL Champion- 36, 37
JL Southern- 34
FL Pacific- 37, 39
Wild Card- 33, 35, 36, 40, 43

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Re: Ranking the Pennant Winners

Post by usnspecialist » Thu Nov 02, 2023 7:28 pm

indiansfan wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2023 8:00 pm
Still some of my favorites yet to be ranked, 68 Orioles, 72 A's and the Indians teams in the 90's. Really enjoying this series.
im assuming you mean the 69 Orioles (68 is before the data here, and also would have been the tigers anyway). Also those A's are coming right up....
Randy Weigand

Havana Sugar Kings/San Fernando Bears: 32-50 (1608-1481)
Des Moines Kernels: 52-

League Champion- 34
JL Champion- 34
FL Champion- 36, 37
JL Southern- 34
FL Pacific- 37, 39
Wild Card- 33, 35, 36, 40, 43

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Re: Ranking the Pennant Winners

Post by usnspecialist » Thu Nov 02, 2023 7:47 pm

RANK: 46
YEAR: 1972
TEAM: Oakland Athletics
TOP WAR: 511.7
PLAYOFF RESULTS: Won World Series over Cincinnati Reds 4-3
TOTALS:
CATEGORYTOTALRANK
TOP TOTAL WAR511.746
TOP BATTER WAR315.946
TOP PITCHING WAR195.845
TOTAL WAR708.429
TOTAL BATTER WAR476.420
TOTAL PITCHER WAR232.045
GARBAGE TOTAL WAR196.76
GARBAGE BATTER WAR160.53
GARBAGE PITCHER WAR36.237
BATTER AGE28.7836
PITCHER AGE28.2740
TOP BATTER AGE28.0963
TOP PITCHER AGE27.8059
TOP HITTERS:
POSITIONAGENAMEWAR
C26Dave Duncan6.5
1B29Mike Epstein12.7
2B30Tim Cullen3.7
SS30Bert Campaneris53.1
3B28Sal Bando61.5
LF25Joe Rudi25.5
CF26Reggie Jackson74.0
RF25Angel Mangual2.1
BENCH25Gene Tenace46.8
BENCH32Larry Brown6.9
BENCH33Matty Alou23.1
TOP PITCHERS:
POSITIONAGENAMEWAR
SP26Catfish Hunter40.9
SP26Ken Holtzman27.3
SP27Blue Moon Odom5.4
SP22Vida Blue45.1
SP24Dave Hamilton3.8
RP25Rollie Fingers25.6
RP34Joe Horlen23.1
RP34Bob Locker10.2
RP30Darold Knowles12.0
RP30Gary Waslewski2.4
OTHERS OF NOTE:
POSITIONAGENAMEWAR
BENCH34Orlando Cepeda50.1
BENCH22George Hendrick29.1
BENCH34Don Mincher23.1
BULLPEN28Denny McLain19.3
BENCH31Dick Green16.0
BULLPEN34Diego Segui12.6
BENCH28Curt Biefary11.0
BENCH28Ollie Brown10.4
Comments: The first of the 3 peat Athletics, this is also their best team on paper. The starting rotation is mostly unchanged from previous entries on this list (although the bullpen was of higher quality), and a lot of the offensive names remain the same. What gives this team a boost is having Matty Alou instead of his brother Jesus (who featured on the subsequent teams), as that bought them an extra 22 WAR. This garbage WAR total seems impressive from the offensive side, but a bulk of that is from 3 pinch hit appearances from Orlando Cepada (acquired in a mid-season trade for Denny McLain), before he had to have season ending surgery. Other than that it was a solid deep bench, but nothing unlike what we have seen from prior teams.
Randy Weigand

Havana Sugar Kings/San Fernando Bears: 32-50 (1608-1481)
Des Moines Kernels: 52-

League Champion- 34
JL Champion- 34
FL Champion- 36, 37
JL Southern- 34
FL Pacific- 37, 39
Wild Card- 33, 35, 36, 40, 43

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Re: Ranking the Pennant Winners

Post by usnspecialist » Thu Nov 02, 2023 9:02 pm

RANK: 45
YEAR: 1979
TEAM: Baltimore Orioles
TOP WAR: 524.6
PLAYOFF RESULTS: Lost World Series to Pittsburgh Pirates 4-3
TOTALS:
CATEGORYTOTALRANK
TOP TOTAL WAR524.645
TOP BATTER WAR314.647
TOP PITCHING WAR210.037
TOTAL WAR554.662
TOTAL BATTER WAR345.257
TOTAL PITCHER WAR209.454
GARBAGE TOTAL WAR3080
GARBAGE BATTER WAR30.667
GARBAGE PITCHER WAR-0.680
BATTER AGE28.8634
PITCHER AGE26.4276
TOP BATTER AGE29.2740
TOP PITCHER AGE27.0070
TOP HITTERS:
POSITIONAGENAMEWAR
C29Rick Dempsey25.1
1B23Eddie Murray68.7
2B26Rich Dauer14.4
SS25Kiko Garcia4.9
3B28Doug DiCinces41.7
LF24Gary Roenicke15.4
CF32Al Bumbry24.5
RF32Ken Singleton41.8
DH36Lee May27.2
BENCH35Mark Belanger40.9
BENCH32John Lowenstein10.0
TOP PITCHERS:
POSITIONAGENAMEWAR
SP25Dennis Martinez48.7
SP27Mike Flanagan25.5
SP31Steve Stone17.1
SP25Scott McGregor20.2
SP33Jim Palmer68.5
RP28Don Stanhouse5.7
RP24Sammy Stewart10.0
RP29Tippy Martinez8.6
RP26Tim Stoddard4.6
RP22Dave Ford1.1
OTHERS OF NOTE:
POSITIONAGENAMEWAR
BENCH34Pat Kelly11.7
BULLPEN23Jeff Rineer0.1
Comments: A relatively balanced but shallow team (there were only 12 pitchers on the roster this entire season, and rineer is the only one not already mentioned who had a positive career WAR), this Orioles team took the We Are Family Pirates to 7 before falling. The offense was solid at every position except SS (which a certain Ironman would fill in a few years time), as the headliner there was a young future HOFer in Eddie Murray. The rotation was relatively balanced agewise, with Jim Palmer on the backend of his career and El Presidente Dennis Martinez as the ace. Martinez wasn’t nearly as good as his brother, but he had a pretty damn good career in his own right. Steve Stone also featured before going on to become a well known broadcaster on both sides of Chicago a generation later.
Randy Weigand

Havana Sugar Kings/San Fernando Bears: 32-50 (1608-1481)
Des Moines Kernels: 52-

League Champion- 34
JL Champion- 34
FL Champion- 36, 37
JL Southern- 34
FL Pacific- 37, 39
Wild Card- 33, 35, 36, 40, 43

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Re: Ranking the Pennant Winners

Post by Dington » Thu Nov 02, 2023 9:38 pm

usnspecialist wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2023 9:02 pm
RANK: 45
YEAR: 1979
TEAM: Baltimore Orioles
TOP WAR: 524.6
PLAYOFF RESULTS: Lost World Series to Pittsburgh Pirates 4-3
TOTALS:
CATEGORYTOTALRANK
TOP TOTAL WAR524.645
TOP BATTER WAR314.647
TOP PITCHING WAR210.037
TOTAL WAR554.662
TOTAL BATTER WAR345.257
TOTAL PITCHER WAR209.454
GARBAGE TOTAL WAR3080
GARBAGE BATTER WAR30.667
GARBAGE PITCHER WAR-0.680
BATTER AGE28.8634
PITCHER AGE26.4276
TOP BATTER AGE29.2740
TOP PITCHER AGE27.0070
TOP HITTERS:
POSITIONAGENAMEWAR
C29Rick Dempsey25.1
1B23Eddie Murray68.7
2B26Rich Dauer14.4
SS25Kiko Garcia4.9
3B28Doug DiCinces41.7
LF24Gary Roenicke15.4
CF32Al Bumbry24.5
RF32Ken Singleton41.8
DH36Lee May27.2
BENCH35Mark Belanger40.9
BENCH32John Lowenstein10.0
TOP PITCHERS:
POSITIONAGENAMEWAR
SP25Dennis Martinez48.7
SP27Mike Flanagan25.5
SP31Steve Stone17.1
SP25Scott McGregor20.2
SP33Jim Palmer68.5
RP28Don Stanhouse5.7
RP24Sammy Stewart10.0
RP29Tippy Martinez8.6
RP26Tim Stoddard4.6
RP22Dave Ford1.1
OTHERS OF NOTE:
POSITIONAGENAMEWAR
BENCH34Pat Kelly11.7
BULLPEN23Jeff Rineer0.1
Comments: A relatively balanced but shallow team (there were only 12 pitchers on the roster this entire season, and rineer is the only one not already mentioned who had a positive career WAR), this Orioles team took the We Are Family Pirates to 7 before falling. The offense was solid at every position except SS (which a certain Ironman would fill in a few years time), as the headliner there was a young future HOFer in Eddie Murray. The rotation was relatively balanced agewise, with Jim Palmer on the backend of his career and El Presidente Dennis Martinez as the ace. Martinez wasn’t nearly as good as his brother, but he had a pretty damn good career in his own right. Steve Stone also featured before going on to become a well known broadcaster on both sides of Chicago a generation later.
Who was El Presidentes brother?
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Re: Ranking the Pennant Winners

Post by Jwalk100 » Thu Nov 02, 2023 10:13 pm

usnspecialist wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2023 7:04 pm
RANK: 48
YEAR: 1997
TEAM: Florida Marlins
TOP WAR: 508.7
PLAYOFF RESULTS: Won World Series 4-3 over Cleveland Indians
TOTALS:
CATEGORYTOTALRANK
TOP TOTAL WAR508.748
TOP BATTER WAR301.356
TOP PITCHING WAR207.440
TOTAL WAR639.841
TOTAL BATTER WAR404.943
TOTAL PITCHER WAR234.943
GARBAGE TOTAL WAR131.130
GARBAGE BATTER WAR103.621
GARBAGE PITCHER WAR27.549
BATTER AGE28.0055
PITCHER AGE27.5362
TOP BATTER AGE29.3638
TOP PITCHER AGE27.2067
TOP HITTERS:
POSITIONAGENAMEWAR
C25Charles Johnson22.6
1B31Jeff Conine19.5
2B21Luis Castillo29.1
SS20Edgar Rentaria32.4
3B34Bobby Bonilla30.2
LF30Moises Alou39.9
CF34Devon White47.3
RF28Gary Sheffield60.5
BENCH38Jim Eisenreich13.2
BENCH28Kurt Abbot0.5
BENCH34John Cangelosi6.1
TOP PITCHERS:
POSITIONAGENAMEWAR
SP32Kevin Brown67.8
SP27Alex Fernandez28.5
SP31Al Leiter40.0
SP23Tony Saunders2.7
SP29Pat Rapp9.3
SP22Livan Hernandez30.0
RP27Robb Nen15.0
RP25Jay Powell2.8
RP34Dennis Cook10.7
RP22Felix Heredia0.6
OTHERS OF NOTE:
POSITIONAGENAMEWAR
BENCH24Cliff Floyd25.9
BENCH35Darren Daulton23.0
BENCH26Craig Counsell22.4
BENCH21Mark Kotsay21.4
BULLPEN26Rick Helling20.2
BENCH26Gregg Zaun13.7
BENCH22Josh Booty0.0
Comments: The squad best known for being dismantled in the immediate aftermath of their title (only to raise from the ashes 6 years later to win again), the hallmark of this team was a balanced offense anchored by HOFer Gary Sheffield and a very top heavy veteran rotation led by the criminally underrated Kevin Brown (Livan Hernandez was a rookie that year who didn’t come on until late in the year). He is also mostly forgotten now, but older folks will remember Devon White as the silky smooth CF who is probably best known for being a member of the Blue Jays title teams in the early 90s. The bench was full of guys who hadn’t quite popped yet (and well, Darren Daulton) but would have solid careers in their own right.

Josh Booty was a QB at LSU under Nick Saban. He ended up in the NFL for a short time.
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Re: Ranking the Pennant Winners

Post by trmmilwwi » Fri Nov 03, 2023 6:38 am

Love this series. The names bring me back for sure. Sheffield (with his gold teeth), Charles Johnson, Saberhagen. My card collecting prime.
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Re: Ranking the Pennant Winners

Post by usnspecialist » Fri Nov 03, 2023 3:56 pm

Dington wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2023 9:38 pm
usnspecialist wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2023 9:02 pm
RANK: 45
YEAR: 1979
TEAM: Baltimore Orioles
TOP WAR: 524.6
PLAYOFF RESULTS: Lost World Series to Pittsburgh Pirates 4-3
TOTALS:
CATEGORYTOTALRANK
TOP TOTAL WAR524.645
TOP BATTER WAR314.647
TOP PITCHING WAR210.037
TOTAL WAR554.662
TOTAL BATTER WAR345.257
TOTAL PITCHER WAR209.454
GARBAGE TOTAL WAR3080
GARBAGE BATTER WAR30.667
GARBAGE PITCHER WAR-0.680
BATTER AGE28.8634
PITCHER AGE26.4276
TOP BATTER AGE29.2740
TOP PITCHER AGE27.0070
TOP HITTERS:
POSITIONAGENAMEWAR
C29Rick Dempsey25.1
1B23Eddie Murray68.7
2B26Rich Dauer14.4
SS25Kiko Garcia4.9
3B28Doug DiCinces41.7
LF24Gary Roenicke15.4
CF32Al Bumbry24.5
RF32Ken Singleton41.8
DH36Lee May27.2
BENCH35Mark Belanger40.9
BENCH32John Lowenstein10.0
TOP PITCHERS:
POSITIONAGENAMEWAR
SP25Dennis Martinez48.7
SP27Mike Flanagan25.5
SP31Steve Stone17.1
SP25Scott McGregor20.2
SP33Jim Palmer68.5
RP28Don Stanhouse5.7
RP24Sammy Stewart10.0
RP29Tippy Martinez8.6
RP26Tim Stoddard4.6
RP22Dave Ford1.1
OTHERS OF NOTE:
POSITIONAGENAMEWAR
BENCH34Pat Kelly11.7
BULLPEN23Jeff Rineer0.1
Comments: A relatively balanced but shallow team (there were only 12 pitchers on the roster this entire season, and rineer is the only one not already mentioned who had a positive career WAR), this Orioles team took the We Are Family Pirates to 7 before falling. The offense was solid at every position except SS (which a certain Ironman would fill in a few years time), as the headliner there was a young future HOFer in Eddie Murray. The rotation was relatively balanced agewise, with Jim Palmer on the backend of his career and El Presidente Dennis Martinez as the ace. Martinez wasn’t nearly as good as his brother, but he had a pretty damn good career in his own right. Steve Stone also featured before going on to become a well known broadcaster on both sides of Chicago a generation later.
Who was El Presidentes brother?
The greatest right handed pitcher of the last 30 years, Pedro Martinez.
Randy Weigand

Havana Sugar Kings/San Fernando Bears: 32-50 (1608-1481)
Des Moines Kernels: 52-

League Champion- 34
JL Champion- 34
FL Champion- 36, 37
JL Southern- 34
FL Pacific- 37, 39
Wild Card- 33, 35, 36, 40, 43

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Re: Ranking the Pennant Winners

Post by usnspecialist » Fri Nov 03, 2023 3:57 pm

Jwalk100 wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2023 10:13 pm
usnspecialist wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2023 7:04 pm
RANK: 48
YEAR: 1997
TEAM: Florida Marlins
TOP WAR: 508.7
PLAYOFF RESULTS: Won World Series 4-3 over Cleveland Indians
TOTALS:
CATEGORYTOTALRANK
TOP TOTAL WAR508.748
TOP BATTER WAR301.356
TOP PITCHING WAR207.440
TOTAL WAR639.841
TOTAL BATTER WAR404.943
TOTAL PITCHER WAR234.943
GARBAGE TOTAL WAR131.130
GARBAGE BATTER WAR103.621
GARBAGE PITCHER WAR27.549
BATTER AGE28.0055
PITCHER AGE27.5362
TOP BATTER AGE29.3638
TOP PITCHER AGE27.2067
TOP HITTERS:
POSITIONAGENAMEWAR
C25Charles Johnson22.6
1B31Jeff Conine19.5
2B21Luis Castillo29.1
SS20Edgar Rentaria32.4
3B34Bobby Bonilla30.2
LF30Moises Alou39.9
CF34Devon White47.3
RF28Gary Sheffield60.5
BENCH38Jim Eisenreich13.2
BENCH28Kurt Abbot0.5
BENCH34John Cangelosi6.1
TOP PITCHERS:
POSITIONAGENAMEWAR
SP32Kevin Brown67.8
SP27Alex Fernandez28.5
SP31Al Leiter40.0
SP23Tony Saunders2.7
SP29Pat Rapp9.3
SP22Livan Hernandez30.0
RP27Robb Nen15.0
RP25Jay Powell2.8
RP34Dennis Cook10.7
RP22Felix Heredia0.6
OTHERS OF NOTE:
POSITIONAGENAMEWAR
BENCH24Cliff Floyd25.9
BENCH35Darren Daulton23.0
BENCH26Craig Counsell22.4
BENCH21Mark Kotsay21.4
BULLPEN26Rick Helling20.2
BENCH26Gregg Zaun13.7
BENCH22Josh Booty0.0
Comments: The squad best known for being dismantled in the immediate aftermath of their title (only to raise from the ashes 6 years later to win again), the hallmark of this team was a balanced offense anchored by HOFer Gary Sheffield and a very top heavy veteran rotation led by the criminally underrated Kevin Brown (Livan Hernandez was a rookie that year who didn’t come on until late in the year). He is also mostly forgotten now, but older folks will remember Devon White as the silky smooth CF who is probably best known for being a member of the Blue Jays title teams in the early 90s. The bench was full of guys who hadn’t quite popped yet (and well, Darren Daulton) but would have solid careers in their own right.

Josh Booty was a QB at LSU under Nick Saban. He ended up in the NFL for a short time.
i meant to mention something about that, which is why i tossed him in there (the "others of note" is basically anyone over 10 WAR and/or people who are well known for other reasons).
Randy Weigand

Havana Sugar Kings/San Fernando Bears: 32-50 (1608-1481)
Des Moines Kernels: 52-

League Champion- 34
JL Champion- 34
FL Champion- 36, 37
JL Southern- 34
FL Pacific- 37, 39
Wild Card- 33, 35, 36, 40, 43

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Re: Ranking the Pennant Winners

Post by Dington » Fri Nov 03, 2023 3:58 pm

usnspecialist wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2023 3:56 pm
Dington wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2023 9:38 pm
usnspecialist wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2023 9:02 pm
RANK: 45
YEAR: 1979
TEAM: Baltimore Orioles
TOP WAR: 524.6
PLAYOFF RESULTS: Lost World Series to Pittsburgh Pirates 4-3
TOTALS:
CATEGORYTOTALRANK
TOP TOTAL WAR524.645
TOP BATTER WAR314.647
TOP PITCHING WAR210.037
TOTAL WAR554.662
TOTAL BATTER WAR345.257
TOTAL PITCHER WAR209.454
GARBAGE TOTAL WAR3080
GARBAGE BATTER WAR30.667
GARBAGE PITCHER WAR-0.680
BATTER AGE28.8634
PITCHER AGE26.4276
TOP BATTER AGE29.2740
TOP PITCHER AGE27.0070
TOP HITTERS:
POSITIONAGENAMEWAR
C29Rick Dempsey25.1
1B23Eddie Murray68.7
2B26Rich Dauer14.4
SS25Kiko Garcia4.9
3B28Doug DiCinces41.7
LF24Gary Roenicke15.4
CF32Al Bumbry24.5
RF32Ken Singleton41.8
DH36Lee May27.2
BENCH35Mark Belanger40.9
BENCH32John Lowenstein10.0
TOP PITCHERS:
POSITIONAGENAMEWAR
SP25Dennis Martinez48.7
SP27Mike Flanagan25.5
SP31Steve Stone17.1
SP25Scott McGregor20.2
SP33Jim Palmer68.5
RP28Don Stanhouse5.7
RP24Sammy Stewart10.0
RP29Tippy Martinez8.6
RP26Tim Stoddard4.6
RP22Dave Ford1.1
OTHERS OF NOTE:
POSITIONAGENAMEWAR
BENCH34Pat Kelly11.7
BULLPEN23Jeff Rineer0.1
Comments: A relatively balanced but shallow team (there were only 12 pitchers on the roster this entire season, and rineer is the only one not already mentioned who had a positive career WAR), this Orioles team took the We Are Family Pirates to 7 before falling. The offense was solid at every position except SS (which a certain Ironman would fill in a few years time), as the headliner there was a young future HOFer in Eddie Murray. The rotation was relatively balanced agewise, with Jim Palmer on the backend of his career and El Presidente Dennis Martinez as the ace. Martinez wasn’t nearly as good as his brother, but he had a pretty damn good career in his own right. Steve Stone also featured before going on to become a well known broadcaster on both sides of Chicago a generation later.
Who was El Presidentes brother?
The greatest right handed pitcher of the last 30 years, Pedro Martinez.
I think you're confusing Ramon and Pedro as brothers. No relation to El Presidente.
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Re: Ranking the Pennant Winners

Post by usnspecialist » Fri Nov 03, 2023 5:02 pm

Dington wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2023 3:58 pm
usnspecialist wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2023 3:56 pm
Dington wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2023 9:38 pm


Who was El Presidentes brother?
The greatest right handed pitcher of the last 30 years, Pedro Martinez.
I think you're confusing Ramon and Pedro as brothers. No relation to El Presidente.
you think correctly.
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Havana Sugar Kings/San Fernando Bears: 32-50 (1608-1481)
Des Moines Kernels: 52-

League Champion- 34
JL Champion- 34
FL Champion- 36, 37
JL Southern- 34
FL Pacific- 37, 39
Wild Card- 33, 35, 36, 40, 43

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Re: Ranking the Pennant Winners

Post by usnspecialist » Fri Nov 03, 2023 5:31 pm

RANK: 44
YEAR: 2002
TEAM: San Francisco Giants
TOP WAR: 525.4
PLAYOFF RESULTS: Lost World Series 4-3 to Anaheim Angels
TOTALS:
CATEGORYTOTALRANK
TOP TOTAL WAR525.444
TOP BATTER WAR401.420
TOP PITCHING WAR124.070
TOTAL WAR631.343
TOTAL BATTER WAR468.023
TOTAL PITCHER WAR163.369
GARBAGE TOTAL WAR105.946
GARBAGE BATTER WAR66.645
GARBAGE PITCHER WAR39.334
BATTER AGE30.574
PITCHER AGE29.0625
TOP BATTER AGE32.453
TOP PITCHER AGE29.5032
TOP HITTERS:
POSITIONAGENAMEWAR
C37Benito Santiago27.4
1B34JT Snow11.0
2B34Jeff Kent55.4
SS30Rich Aurilia18.2
3B29David Bell15.2
LF37Barry Bonds163.0
CF30Tsuyoshi Shinjo3.9
RF34Reggie Sanders39.8
BENCH35Kenny Lofton68.4
BENCH28Damon Minor0.1
BENCH29Ramon Martinez-0.8
TOP PITCHERS:
POSITIONAGENAMEWAR
SP27Livan Hernandez30.0
SP28Russ Ortiz13.2
SP31Kirk Rueter16.3
SP29Jason Schmidt29.5
SP26Ryan Jensen-0.3
RP32Robb Nen15.0
RP34Tim Worrel8.7
RP29Felix Rodriguez8.5
RP29Jay Witasick2.6
RP30Chad Zerbe0.5
OTHERS OF NOTE:
POSITIONAGENAMEWAR
BULLPEN27Joe Nathan26.7
BENCH31Bill Mueller23.9
BENCH39Shawon Dunston11.5
Comments: The one World Series appearance for maybe the greatest hitter of all time (and the first for manager Dusty Baker), and it happened with a group of old dudes. Only 1 lineup member under the age of 30 (David Bell at the ripe old age of 29), and of the 9 starters there is really only other 1 guy worth a historical note in Jeff Kent (although Kenny Lofton off the bench is an incredible weapon historically that deserves FAR more respect than he got). Also if you have a guy in Barry Bonds who basically has 2 HOF careers worth of WAR and you still barely crack the top 1/4 of pennant winning offenses, that is not great for you… The starting rotation is only slightly younger, and full of guys that are pretty “meh”, both at the time and in hindsight.
Last edited by usnspecialist on Mon Nov 06, 2023 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Havana Sugar Kings/San Fernando Bears: 32-50 (1608-1481)
Des Moines Kernels: 52-

League Champion- 34
JL Champion- 34
FL Champion- 36, 37
JL Southern- 34
FL Pacific- 37, 39
Wild Card- 33, 35, 36, 40, 43

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Re: Ranking the Pennant Winners

Post by usnspecialist » Fri Nov 03, 2023 5:51 pm

RANK: 43
YEAR: 1994
TEAM: Chicago White Sox
TOP WAR: 525.7
PLAYOFF RESULTS: NONE (2nd in AL at the time, but New York Yankees were #1 and are well represented from this time)
TOTALS:
CATEGORYTOTALRANK
TOP TOTAL WAR525.743
TOP BATTER WAR342.132
TOP PITCHING WAR183.651
TOTAL WAR563.161
TOTAL BATTER WAR372.849
TOTAL PITCHER WAR190.359
GARBAGE TOTAL WAR37.477
GARBAGE BATTER WAR30.766
GARBAGE PITCHER WAR6.772
BATTER AGE29.7519
PITCHER AGE29.7115
TOP BATTER AGE30.0025
TOP PITCHER AGE29.5032
TOP HITTERS:
POSITIONAGENAMEWAR
C30Ron Karkovice14.6
1B26Frank Thomas73.8
2B29Joey Cora7.9
SS30Ozzie Guillen20.9
3B26Robin Ventura56.1
LF34Tim Raines69.4
CF30Lance Johnson30.2
RF30Darrin Jackson11.3
DH35Julio Franco43.6
BENCH33Mike LaValliere13.9
BENCH27Norberto Martin0.4
TOP PITCHERS:
POSITIONAGENAMEWAR
SP28Jack McDowell27.8
SP24Alex Fernandez28.5
SP24Wilson Alvarez24.8
SP23Jason Bere3.3
SP37Scott Sanderson27.7
RP29Roberto Hernandez18.5
RP33Jose DeLeon15.0
RP33Kirk McCaskill14.3
RP31Dennis Cook10.7
RP33Paul Assenmacher13.0
OTHERS OF NOTE:
POSITIONAGENAMEWAR
BENCH32Dan Pasqua10.7
BENCH29Craig Grabeck10.2
BULLPEN36Atlee Hammaker8.3
BENCH32Bob Melvin2.5
Comments: As mentioned above, the White Sox were not leading the American League at this time (although they were leading the AL West, the Yankees had a better overall record), but I made the executive decision because the Yankees from this generation were VERY well represented later on in this list to get some variety. This was a team that had a lot of promising potential as a good bulk of their lineup and rotation were in the middle of the prime (and they had also made the 1993 ALCS the year before), but they never really came back after the strike with any sort of spark. Anytime a team can have only 1 member of the 10 man rotation and 2 of their top 11 hitters with below 10 WAR, that is a pretty balanced team. As a White Sox fan it would have been fun to see what this team was capable of but alas….
Randy Weigand

Havana Sugar Kings/San Fernando Bears: 32-50 (1608-1481)
Des Moines Kernels: 52-

League Champion- 34
JL Champion- 34
FL Champion- 36, 37
JL Southern- 34
FL Pacific- 37, 39
Wild Card- 33, 35, 36, 40, 43

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Re: Ranking the Pennant Winners

Post by usnspecialist » Fri Nov 03, 2023 6:21 pm

RANK: 42
YEAR: 1972
TEAM: Cincinnati Reds
TOP WAR: 532.8
PLAYOFF RESULTS: Lost World Series 4-3 to Oakland Athletics
TOTALS:
CATEGORYTOTALRANK
TOP TOTAL WAR532.842
TOP BATTER WAR443.38
TOP PITCHING WAR89.581
TOTAL WAR615.846
TOTAL BATTER WAR502.114
TOTAL PITCHER WAR113.780
GARBAGE TOTAL WAR83.061
GARBAGE BATTER WAR58.850
GARBAGE PITCHER WAR24.253
BATTER AGE27.3373
PITCHER AGE26.2378
TOP BATTER AGE26.6478
TOP PITCHER AGE25.3081
TOP HITTERS:
POSITIONAGENAMEWAR
C24Johnny Bench75.2
1B30Tony Perez54.0
2B28Joe Morgan100.5
SS24Dave Concepcion40.1
3B31Denis Menke28.1
LF31Pete Rose79.7
CF26Bobby Tolan10.1
RF24Cesar Geronimo12.9
BENCH24Darrel Chaney-3.4
BENCH28Joe Hague1.9
BENCH23George Foster44.2
TOP PITCHERS:
POSITIONAGENAMEWAR
SP29Jack Billingham7.4
SP22Ross Grimsley5.1
SP24Gary Nolan25.9
SP28Jim McGlothlin6.3
SP21Don Gullett18.2
RP23Wayne Simpson-1.0
RP31Clay Carroll17.7
RP24Tom Hall5.9
RP25Pedro Borbon5.2
RP26Ed Sprague-1.2
OTHERS OF NOTE:
POSITIONAGENAMEWAR
BENCH26Hal McRae27.9
BENCH24Bernie Carbo18.4
BULLPEN28Jim Merritt16.1
BENCH35Julian Javier13.9
Comments: Holy unbalanced team batman. Meet the 2nd worst pitching staff of any pennant winning team covered (and spoiler alert, it finished 0.1 ahead of another Reds team from this era). The Big Red Machine was clearly focused around offense, and in that the did VERY well. 3 HOFers (Bench, Perez, Morgan) plus Pete Rose, not to mention guys like George Foster and Dave Concepcion who didn’t exactly suck either. The pitching staff on the other hand, featured almost as many guys with 10+ WAR (3) as negative WAR (2) which is not exactly ideal. This team also wraps up the bottom half of our list, we are halfway there folks!!
Randy Weigand

Havana Sugar Kings/San Fernando Bears: 32-50 (1608-1481)
Des Moines Kernels: 52-

League Champion- 34
JL Champion- 34
FL Champion- 36, 37
JL Southern- 34
FL Pacific- 37, 39
Wild Card- 33, 35, 36, 40, 43

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Re: Ranking the Pennant Winners

Post by RonCo » Sun Nov 05, 2023 11:47 am

usnspecialist wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2023 5:31 pm
RANK: 44
YEAR: 2002
TEAM: San Francisco Giants
TOP WAR: 525.4
PLAYOFF RESULTS: Lost World Series 4-3 to Anaheim Angels


TOP PITCHERS:
POSITIONAGENAMEWAR
C37Benito Santiago27.4
1B34JT Snow11.0
2B34Jeff Kent55.4
SS30Rich Aurilia18.2
3B29David Bell15.2
LF37Barry Bonds163.0
CF30Tsuyoshi Shinjo3.9
RF34Reggie Sanders39.8
BENCH35Kenny Lofton68.4
BENCH28Damon Minor0.1
BENCH29Ramon Martinez-0.8
Dang ... another double-paste. :)

No pitchers!

Aside: It's annoying that Bonds did the stuff because he'd be in just based on his first career. Dummy.
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Re: Ranking the Pennant Winners

Post by RonCo » Sun Nov 05, 2023 11:54 am

usnspecialist wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2023 5:51 pm


Comments: As mentioned above, the White Sox were not leading the American League at this time (although they were leading the AL West, the Yankees had a better overall record), but I made the executive decision because the Yankees from this generation were VERY well represented later on in this list to get some variety. This was a team that had a lot of promising potential as a good bulk of their lineup and rotation were in the middle of the prime (and they had also made the 1993 ALCS the year before), but they never really came back after the strike with any sort of spark. Anytime a team can have only 1 member of the 10 man rotation and 2 of their top 11 hitters with below 10 WAR, that is a pretty balanced team. As a White Sox fan it would have been fun to see what this team was capable of but alas….
Yeah, it would have been great to see an older Tim Raines get another shot here. The strike year has the same "what if" kind of feel as the pandemic year. Yes, the Dodgers got their World Series out of it, but we got robbed of the full story that a real season allows.
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Re: Ranking the Pennant Winners

Post by RonCo » Sun Nov 05, 2023 11:59 am

usnspecialist wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2023 6:21 pm
RANK: 42
YEAR: 1972
TEAM: Cincinnati Reds
TOP WAR: 532.8
PLAYOFF RESULTS: Lost World Series 4-3 to Oakland Athletics
TOTALS:
CATEGORYTOTALRANK
TOP TOTAL WAR532.842
TOP BATTER WAR443.38
TOP PITCHING WAR89.581
TOTAL WAR615.846
TOTAL BATTER WAR502.114
TOTAL PITCHER WAR113.780
GARBAGE TOTAL WAR83.061
GARBAGE BATTER WAR58.850
GARBAGE PITCHER WAR24.253
BATTER AGE27.3373
PITCHER AGE26.2378
TOP BATTER AGE26.6478
TOP PITCHER AGE25.3081

Comments: Holy unbalanced team batman. Meet the 2nd worst pitching staff of any pennant winning team covered (and spoiler alert, it finished 0.1 ahead of another Reds team from this era). The Big Red Machine was clearly focused around offense, and in that the did VERY well. 3 HOFers (Bench, Perez, Morgan) plus Pete Rose, not to mention guys like George Foster and Dave Concepcion who didn’t exactly suck either. The pitching staff on the other hand, featured almost as many guys with 10+ WAR (3) as negative WAR (2) which is not exactly ideal. This team also wraps up the bottom half of our list, we are halfway there folks!!
As a kid living in the area and following the Big Red Machine, I can say that (1) Hell to the Yes on the Offense, but (2) while the staff rarely had mega-career pitchers, they were full of guys who were at their peaks...meaning whatever WAR their careers had were being created in those moments. That's perhaps a sign of a good front office and/or scouting/coaching staff. Maybe?

Per BBRef, the Reds' staff was third in the league in ERA that year, anyway.

Regardless, the Reds could always hit.
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Re: Ranking the Pennant Winners

Post by usnspecialist » Mon Nov 06, 2023 2:13 pm

RonCo wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2023 11:54 am
usnspecialist wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2023 5:51 pm


Comments: As mentioned above, the White Sox were not leading the American League at this time (although they were leading the AL West, the Yankees had a better overall record), but I made the executive decision because the Yankees from this generation were VERY well represented later on in this list to get some variety. This was a team that had a lot of promising potential as a good bulk of their lineup and rotation were in the middle of the prime (and they had also made the 1993 ALCS the year before), but they never really came back after the strike with any sort of spark. Anytime a team can have only 1 member of the 10 man rotation and 2 of their top 11 hitters with below 10 WAR, that is a pretty balanced team. As a White Sox fan it would have been fun to see what this team was capable of but alas….
Yeah, it would have been great to see an older Tim Raines get another shot here. The strike year has the same "what if" kind of feel as the pandemic year. Yes, the Dodgers got their World Series out of it, but we got robbed of the full story that a real season allows.
raines actually DID get a ring with the yankees a few years later, albeit in a supporting role (he was actually 11th on that team, so he will count towards their stats for the purposes of this).
Randy Weigand

Havana Sugar Kings/San Fernando Bears: 32-50 (1608-1481)
Des Moines Kernels: 52-

League Champion- 34
JL Champion- 34
FL Champion- 36, 37
JL Southern- 34
FL Pacific- 37, 39
Wild Card- 33, 35, 36, 40, 43

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Re: Ranking the Pennant Winners

Post by usnspecialist » Mon Nov 06, 2023 2:15 pm

RonCo wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2023 11:47 am
usnspecialist wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2023 5:31 pm
RANK: 44
YEAR: 2002
TEAM: San Francisco Giants
TOP WAR: 525.4
PLAYOFF RESULTS: Lost World Series 4-3 to Anaheim Angels


TOP PITCHERS:
POSITIONAGENAMEWAR
C37Benito Santiago27.4
1B34JT Snow11.0
2B34Jeff Kent55.4
SS30Rich Aurilia18.2
3B29David Bell15.2
LF37Barry Bonds163.0
CF30Tsuyoshi Shinjo3.9
RF34Reggie Sanders39.8
BENCH35Kenny Lofton68.4
BENCH28Damon Minor0.1
BENCH29Ramon Martinez-0.8
Dang ... another double-paste. :)

No pitchers!

Aside: It's annoying that Bonds did the stuff because he'd be in just based on his first career. Dummy.
fixed but as you see the pitchers aren't really much to look at anyway...
Randy Weigand

Havana Sugar Kings/San Fernando Bears: 32-50 (1608-1481)
Des Moines Kernels: 52-

League Champion- 34
JL Champion- 34
FL Champion- 36, 37
JL Southern- 34
FL Pacific- 37, 39
Wild Card- 33, 35, 36, 40, 43

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