Good Grief I Can't Stand Cardinals Fans

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Good Grief I Can't Stand Cardinals Fans

Post by Ted » Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:31 pm

So I follow a couple blogs of my favorite team, and the amount of crying about the FO basically saying they aren't in on Harper or Machado is unreal. It's a bunch of "the owners are just pocketing money." (Despite average the 10th highest payroll in MLB while being in a medium/big market) "They're not doing enough to improve the team" (after trading for Paul Goldschmidt). "We haven't made the playoffs in THREE YEARS!" Waaahhhhhhh!!! And we've only missed the playoffs by like 3 games in those years, won two world series this century and made a couple more. What a bunch of entitled tools.

Maybe I should just realize that people who comment on blogs are the worst people in the world and not representative of everyone, but FFS you'd think we were the Pirates or something, whose owners basically lie about not making money, and don't even try to look like they are attempting to win until the fans stop showing up.

Or maybe I should just stop reading comments, and enjoy the articles I read. Either way. Don't worry Cardinals fans haters, we hate ourselves.
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Re: Good Grief I Can't Stand Cardinals Fans

Post by Ted » Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:42 pm

Fro the love of god why do people care so much about Bryce Harper? If you remove his best year and his TWO worst years, he's a 3.36 win player. If you don't he's a 4.385 win player. If you use bAR instead of FWAR he's a 3.9 win player. You do not pay 4 win players 35 million for ten years. You don't pay them 30 million for ten years. You know who gets that money? The top twenty players in baseball if they magically hit FA at age 26, which never happens. Bryce fucking Harper isn't even one of the top 50 players in baseball. I am losing my mind. This offseason sucks, I'm tired of the crying and whining about about owners won't shell out a fortune to the most over rated player in baseball who has the most obnoxious agent in sports history and a certified douche canoe. Can we just get to baseball already?

Sorry. Needed to get that out. Thanks for listening.
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Re: Good Grief I Can't Stand Cardinals Fans

Post by Spiccoli » Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:49 pm

Yeah... completely agree on Harper. Even if he was that good....

For what he’s going to get paid, you can acquire 4-5 solid players.

One guy doesn’t mean much in baseball. Unlike the NBA, it’s a team game.

One guy gets 3-4 at bats per game... maybe 5
Or
Pitches once every 5 games

So dumb to throw that much money at one guy and wreck your team. Didn’t they learn anything from A-Rod’s contract?
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Re: Good Grief I Can't Stand Cardinals Fans

Post by Ted » Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:20 pm

Spiccoli wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:49 pm
Yeah... completely agree on Harper. Even if he was that good....

For what he’s going to get paid, you can acquire 4-5 solid players.

One guy doesn’t mean much in baseball. Unlike the NBA, it’s a team game.

One guy gets 3-4 at bats per game... maybe 5
Or
Pitches once every 5 games

So dumb to throw that much money at one guy and wreck your team. Didn’t they learn anything from A-Rod’s contract?
So not to sound like I'm contradicting myself, but A-Rod's not actually the best example of a busted deal. He actually exceeded dollars per win in the first deal, and was only marginally under during the second, and was generally one of the best players in baseball the whole time, right up until the end. I don;t mind the mega deal for the mega player, and I'd even be okay with being underwater the last few years on it. It's just that these two guys AREN'T that good. Machado is actually superior to Harper, but I just don't want to root for the guy. Harper is only who he is because he was a high school phenom who got hyped up, then had one incredible season. He may have that in him again. Who knows?

But what blows my mind is how be's being touted as this generational talent. If Bryce Harper does what he has done in the prime of his athletic life for eight more seasons, he isn't a hall of famer and it's not close. He doesn't make it on old stats. He doesn't make it on new stats. He doesn't stay on the field.

But back to the point, I hate being lumped in with fans that are crying about 87 and 88 win seasons that are the DOWN years of the last two decades. What a bunch of losers.
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Re: Good Grief I Can't Stand Cardinals Fans

Post by agrudez » Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:47 am

Those "fans" in the comment sections of blogs (like SBNation) are the worst. I prefer reddit and team-centric forums - though even they get obnoxious sometimes. In general, internet sports fandom is Stephen A Smith's schtick taken to 1000. Sixers fans even on the more 'mild' mediums I frequent constantly oscillate from 'Ben Simmons is the next Lebron' to 'We should trade Ben Simmons for someone with a jumpshot'. Now, granted, there ARE decent arguments for both sides, but its just insane to watch how one side feels vindicated after a bad/good game and comes out full force while the other shrinks away until the next reverse game when the cycle flips.

As for Harper, I'm a bit surprised by your take here, Ted. It's clear to me that his WAR is depressed by his defense and the position he plays - I figured your MBBA-related feelings on that topic translated to real life, too. I believe he is going to sign with the Phillies for something like 10/320 (with some Kershaw-like opt outs and stuff) and I feel good about it not being considered a terrible deal 3 or 4 years in like Pujols, etc. did.
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Re: Good Grief I Can't Stand Cardinals Fans

Post by RonCo » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:34 pm

Ted likes WAR when it helps his argument. :) :) :) :bye: :popcorn:
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Re: Good Grief I Can't Stand Cardinals Fans

Post by Ted » Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:44 pm

agrudez wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:47 am
Those "fans" in the comment sections of blogs (like SBNation) are the worst. I prefer reddit and team-centric forums - though even they get obnoxious sometimes. In general, internet sports fandom is Stephen A Smith's schtick taken to 1000. Sixers fans even on the more 'mild' mediums I frequent constantly oscillate from 'Ben Simmons is the next Lebron' to 'We should trade Ben Simmons for someone with a jumpshot'. Now, granted, there ARE decent arguments for both sides, but its just insane to watch how one side feels vindicated after a bad/good game and comes out full force while the other shrinks away until the next reverse game when the cycle flips.

As for Harper, I'm a bit surprised by your take here, Ted. It's clear to me that his WAR is depressed by his defense and the position he plays - I figured your MBBA-related feelings on that topic translated to real life, too. I believe he is going to sign with the Phillies for something like 10/320 (with some Kershaw-like opt outs and stuff) and I feel good about it not being considered a terrible deal 3 or 4 years in like Pujols, etc. did.
I could have used other stats I suppose. You can build a pretty strong case just about any way you want that's he's not one of the top 50 players in baseball. He IS a top ten hitter. But he doesn't defend well. He's a mediocre base runner. He can't stay on the field. He has a huge platoon split. He's not consistent.

As far as WAR itself goes, remember the only thing I don't really like is that the positional adjustments probably need updating and scaling. There are enough other players I think are better than him that messing with WAR wouldn't significantly make him look better. I'm still firmly convinced we only think he's so good because we all knew his name when he was 17.
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Re: Good Grief I Can't Stand Cardinals Fans

Post by Bumstead » Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:02 pm

Cardinals fans/Patriots fans.... :shrug:

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Re: Good Grief I Can't Stand Cardinals Fans

Post by RonCo » Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:03 pm

On the whole I tend to agree with you on both Harper and fandom. Harper is a good player, probably above a solid player on the whole, but I'm struggling to see him as the mega-star he's being touted as. I have no issue with paying him $30M a year, but if I were a GM, there's no way I'd structure anything that exposed me to 10 seasons without an out.

Fans are horrible everywhere, really. First off, I'm constantly amazed at how much fandom is almost more about whether your team (or your player) is properly respected than whether it wins. It's a microcosm of male culture in that way, and similar in the fact that fandom isn't really about winning at all, either...it's about destroying the opposition in the right way. You can see this because even when your guys win, if it was close, or if they won with an element of luck, that's almost worse than losing...or at least it doesn't really count as much... And everything is personal. If your team screws up, it's a personal offense, like they did it specifically to piss you off. If your favorite whipping boy loses a game, it just goes to prove how _you!_ are right. If your guy wins, well, "that's _my_ boy!"

I do totally feel the pull of fandom for my own teams...and I've been guilty of these things in the past. But, man, it's ugly at times.
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Re: Good Grief I Can't Stand Cardinals Fans

Post by Bumstead » Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:09 pm

Speaking of that, the Reds "br-ass" does stuff just to piss me off...like right now they putting a team together that can win 81 games....what's the point in that?

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Re: Good Grief I Can't Stand Cardinals Fans

Post by Ted » Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:12 pm

RonCo wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:03 pm
On the whole I tend to agree with you on both Harper and fandom. Harper is a good player, probably above a solid player on the whole, but I'm struggling to see him as the mega-star he's being touted as. I have no issue with paying him $30M a year, but if I were a GM, there's no way I'd structure anything that exposed me to 10 seasons without an out.

Fans are horrible everywhere, really. First off, I'm constantly amazed at how much fandom is almost more about whether your team (or your player) is properly respected than whether it wins. It's a microcosm of male culture in that way, and similar in the fact that fandom isn't really about winning at all, either...it's about destroying the opposition in the right way. You can see this because even when your guys win, if it was close, or if they won with an element of luck, that's almost worse than losing...or at least it doesn't really count as much... And everything is personal. If your team screws up, it's a personal offense, like they did it specifically to piss you off. If your favorite whipping boy loses a game, it just goes to prove how _you!_ are right. If your guy wins, well, "that's _my_ boy!"

I do totally feel the pull of fandom for my own teams...and I've been guilty of these things in the past. But, man, it's ugly at times.
This stuff, man. All of this stuff. and more. I like to think I've eliminated almost all of this from my fandom. These days, I enjoy the Cardinals so much because they are well run. I consider myself a fan of a couple other teams in other sports, but do not enjoy them nearly so much, largely because they are poorly run and cannot win as such. But one of the problems of being a fan of a good team with a large fan base is it attracts a bunch of the types of fans you just described. People making it personal is the worst to me. Those that feel like they have to attack players for not performing well. Or the "My team is better than your team because you are from somewhere else and I'm from here!" people. ugh.
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Re: Good Grief I Can't Stand Cardinals Fans

Post by agrudez » Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:58 pm

Philadelphia fans get a bad rap, but in my experience we only attack players for perceived lack of effort as opposed to skill deficiencies. It does lead to weird situations where fans despise good players that do it effortlessly (Jeff Carter, Bobby Abreu) while deifing scrappy, but less talented players (Ian Lapperiere, TJ McConnell), though.
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