The Brewster

Griffey and Piazza.

Griffey sets a new mark with 437 of 440 votes (who left him off their ballot, seriously) and is the first #1 pick to be inducted.

Piazza elected in his 4th year and is the lowest drafted player ever inducted (he was drafted in the 63rd round or something insane).

Thoughts? Feelings?

The 3 people that left Jr off their ballot should have their voting rights revoked.

7teen wrote:The 3 people that left Jr off their ballot should have their voting rights revoked.

Still, highest ever is something.

Raines is getting robbed. And forget the steroids junk, Bonds, Clemens and McGuire should be in. Enough already

A very good article on the Hall of Fame and unanimous ballots.

I love Posnanski.

Agree on Raines, Recte. He was overshadowed by Ricky Henderson a bit, but good lord, how are people not voting for a guy with a .385 OBP and the 5th most stolen bases all time (808). It's not like he didn't have any pop either. He has like 700ish career xbh.

Some of the voters just need to die already.

I love Piazza getting in. He's the best hitting catcher ever. Period. It isn't really even close. I don't see how the (incorrect) argument that he's poor defensively even matters. On that subject, yes, he did have an abysmal arm, but he called a good game, and blocked balls pretty well. Why is that consistently forgotten simply because his arm was bad?


I don't really care about the steroids junk. If you put those guys in, just put em in a "steroids wing". Or put an asterisk on their plaques. Or don't. Or don't elect them. Bonds was a fuck. Clemens wasn't much better. McGwire, as much as it tore my heart out being a cards fan, did and said some very questionable things. I just don't care about those guys. Frankly, I have hard time giving a shit about any of the players that we know used steroids. Name one that you think was a decent dude and just the "product of an era". Fuck Arod. Fuck Ryan Braun. Fuck him right in his lying ear.

On another note, what do you guys think about Jim Edmonds candidacy? I think he's a borderline guy who is hurt by his just barely missing the mark on some counting type stats. I used to watch about 200 baseball games per summer (I actually love watching baseball because I don't have to pay attention to it, unlike the more actiony sports where I have difficult focusing on one thing for that long). I've probably seen Jim Edmonds play close to 600 or 700 games being a Cards fan. Plus I saw a decent number of Angels games. He's actually a guy that the modern defensive metrics underrate a bit I think.

When I think of Hall of Famers, I think of guys I'll remember, guys who were always making a difference, guys who looked like they were playing a different game than the rest who were out there just competing with others. I'd say Edmonds was one of those easily, but the numbers are borderline for backing that up. Watching him play CF was a joy, as was watching watching him lefty tomahawk eyeball level pitches in the right field seats over and over.

Obviously I'm a bit biased, as he's one of my favorite players of his generation. You could also make an argument for some roid suspicion given some of the players he played with and that his best years were in the 30-36 range.

RonCo wrote:A very good article on the Hall of Fame and unanimous ballots.

I love Posnanski.

Very good read. Thanks.

3 people need to cut back on heroin and/or be stripped of their voting privileges. That said, there were guys who didn't vote for Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, and Sandy Koufax.

Ted wrote:On another note, what do you guys think about Jim Edmonds candidacy?

I was pretty surprised he was a one and done. Consensus always seemed, growing up, to be that he was one of the best ever defensive CFers and a 132 OPS+ from a traditionally weak offensive spot in the lineup is pretty damn good. I think his lack of support shows us 2 things: 1) Defense isn't being considered nearly enough by voters and 2) Counting stats still matter WAY too much to voters.

Its a shame.

agrudez wrote:

Ted wrote:On another note, what do you guys think about Jim Edmonds candidacy?

I was pretty surprised he was a one and done. Consensus always seemed, growing up, to be that he was one of the best ever defensive CFers and a 132 OPS+ from a traditionally weak offensive spot in the lineup is pretty damn good. I think his lack of support shows us 2 things: 1) Defense isn't being considered nearly enough by voters and 2) Counting stats still matter WAY too much to voters.

Its a shame.

Yeah, makes me sad

It's either a museum of baseball or it ain't. Bonds, Clemens etc need to be in there.

I expect (hope) Raines will get in next year.

I think they are two different things--or at least the Hall of Fame is one wing of the Museum of Baseball.

I think a HOF without the all-time hits and HR leader in it is a sham anyway. Put anyone who should be in there in there and let history tell their story. Bonds should be in! Let me tell my kids how I think he cheated the game by using steroids but how he was a treat to watch him hit them.

If it was really about "the kids" or "protecting the sanctity of the hall" then they would do as all you suggest. Unfortunately, it is seemingly MUCH more about personal vendettas (they probably feel lied to since they covered these guys) or inflated senses of self worth (a 50 year old man making 30K a year in a dying industry must assume the role of the Keeper of Justice!) than anything else. If you put them in the Hall you can put them in a separate section, make sure their stuff is plastered with asterisks and keep them from celebrating the induction. Hell, that might be more of a punishment than keeping them out all together.

7teen wrote:...but how he was a treat to watch him hit them.

It was? Infuriating to me (and many others) knowing he wouldn't be doing what he was doing without flagrantly breaking the rules so badly that every home run screamed, "Fuck you, baseball!" as it left the stadium. And I'm not going to argue about it.

7teen wrote:I think a HOF without the all-time hits and HR leader in it is a sham anyway. Put anyone who should be in there in there and let history tell their story. Bonds should be in! Let me tell my kids how I think he cheated the game by using steroids but how he was a treat to watch him hit them.

Realize that if you go to Cooperstown, you will see stuff there from Bonds and Clemens and even Pete Rose. They are in the Baseball Museum, and hence a part of the baseball story. So if you take your kids there, you can tell them all the stories about these players you want. in fact, you can tell them all those stories whether you go to the Cooperstown or not.

They are not, however, enshrined in the wing of the museum that houses the Hall of Fame.

Bond's 756 HR Ball display (complete with asterisk)

I'm a bit late to this, but I'm thrilled Piazza got in. I'm a huge Mets fan and I grew up watching Piazza with the Mets. Also, here's a good article attempting to quantify his defensive value.

I also agree that it's a shame Raines didn't get in. I hope he gets in next year, but it's hard for me to imagine people changing their minds on him. It seems like if you're willing to look at more "advanced" stats, then he's already in, in your mind, and if you're not, then he isn't.