Why don't people just break Rizzo's hands?

[Ted]

After Chris's comment on Ron's injury post about hitting guys in the heads with bean balls, I remembered something I'd wondered about. Why don't opposing teams just hit Anthony Rizzo in the right elbow/hands over and over and over again? For the much of his swing, parts of his arm practically in the middle of the strike zone because he's so ridiculously on top of the plate. Especially if hit batters are review-able. Then just argue that he's in the strike zone when hit and didn't make an effort to get out of the way. If you can't review the play, send the tape to the league office over and over and protest each game.

Full disclose: I'm a Cards fan, and watching the recent series made me think of this. And my team is not without it's share of rule breakers over the years. I just hate people who either stretch or blatantly break the rules. (EX: basket is the only sport I can play reasonably well. It was for a long time my favorite sport to watch. I loved the NBA. I defended it forever who said it was just a bunch of travelling, but now it's so damn obvious that it's unwatchable. Nonstop 4 step drives, people shuffling/picking up their pivot foot, carrying. It's terrible.)

[RonCo]

Basketball was a beautiful sport at one time. Now it's just a mish-mash of athletes doing athletic things. I was more of a college BB fan than pro. But in reality the beauty of the game went away as people started to understand the three-point line and the clock.

http://typosphere.com/2013/02/10/its-th ... ck-stupid/

[Ted]

Basketball was a beautiful sport at one time. Now it's just a mish-mash of athletes doing athletic things. I was more of a college BB fan than pro. But in reality the beauty of the game went away as people started to understand the three-point line and the clock.

http://typosphere.com/2013/02/10/its-th ... ck-stupid/

The stuff about the way the refs call the game is freaking brilliant and absolutely true. While I see the points about the three and the clock, and they do make sense, I do wonder if all that would go away if the game was called right.

[RonCo]

Calling the game right would be a good step, and in fact scoring does go up every time the NCAA pushes refs to call the fouls. But the bottom line is that the best teams go 10 deep anymore, specifically to play defense like they do. The change in defense is 100% about the three-pointer and the clock (with an accentuation on the clock).

Being a Louisville guy means having watched Rick Pitino master everything about the three and the clock.

In the early days (when he was with Providence and UK) people didn't understand that the equation wasn't 33% vs. 50%, it was more like 35% or 37% against 50%...and if you had a hot night shooting threes, that you beat ANY team who shoots just twos. A few years later, people caught up with him. By the time he got to Louisville he realized it was a lot more simple to play the other side of the equation...if you hold the other side to 30% or under from the three you win even if you don't shoot well...and the way you do that is to make the other guy shoot challenged shots against a short clock. So everything Louisville does defensively is to retard progress and keep you out of your offense.

He defends the three like it's a battle ground. Hard pressure everywhere. Long defenders, 10 deep. The zone UL uses is a very strange zone, full of man to man principles and rotations specifically made to keep the three point line covered. Oftentimes the opponents can't tell if we're in a zone or man-to-man. He keeps three big guys with athleticism around if at all possible, because that's 15 fouls. He plays 12 people because then fouls don't matter. At least as much...which is the base reason calling lots of fouls doesn't change the nature of the game for many schools. When you can go 12 deep with athletes, you can call 50 fouls on the team and it won't matter. Especially since foul shooting is so poor. Giving up two foul shots is better than giving up a three pointer in many cases.

Then there's the press.

In Crum's day in Louisville, the press was there to speed the game and get steals. But that's not the case now. Oh, it will get some because that's the nature of the game. But the press is there to take eight seconds off the clock before you get to start your offense...and because once you get the ball to half court it will take 3-5 more seconds to get your team organized (unless you're not well coached, in which case it will take longer). So that 35 second clock is already down to 20 before you even begin to set up an offense against Louisville. Then there's deflections. Pitino does not care about steals. But he tracks deflections, because he knows deflections disrupt offensive flows. He constantly says that if his team gets 35 deflections, they win. You see it in his substitution patterns. Make a mistake on offense, and you keep playing (as a rule), but break down on defense and you're on the pine listening to him bitch for a very long time.

The reason this works is that offenses can no longer take the time they need to find a good shot. The clock gets to 5 or 10, and you have to force something, generally highly challenged.

Other teams are now catching up to him. Virginia is one.

Bottom line: calling fouls right makes things better, but in the end it's the three-pointer and the clock (with the primary emphasis being the clock). No kid comes to the game to play defense, but they do it for 20-30 seconds at a time because then they get the ball. Make them play defense for 60 seconds and then still score on them, and the game changes. In all seriousness, the game of the 70s was much faster than the game is today. And though the four-corners slowed it down, that era was coming to an end because so many coaches were getting burned because there are so few Phil Fords out there. It was already speeding up before the three and clock were engaged. The clock sped the game up for several years, but now that coaches have figured out how to play with it, we're stuck with longer possessions than ever.

Edit: Added the bolded portion.

[RonCo]

On a partially related note on foul shots...the fact is that I think some coaches are beginning to understand that the most valuable fouls in the game are those fouls you give when the other team is in the 1+1 bonus. If you use these fouls well, you can create turnovers or partial turnovers. Foul the 50% shooter on fouls #7, 8, 9, and 10, and have them miss the front end of the bonus, and you've got yourself a turnover.

I often wondered if coaches would get around to doing that, and in the past year or two--while I've not seen anyone actually discuss it, and while I could be wrong--I believe I've started to see coaches target certain shooters if they need a momentum swing.

Which is interesting.

[Ted]

I think part of the reason we see this differently is the college versus NBA aspect. I haven't watched college basketball since the mid 90's. Back when teams had tons of 3 and 4 year players starting, I thought it was a decent product. Now it's garbage. Too many inexperienced players making bonehead mistakes in crunch time. Also, I've moved to a "the NCAA doesn't get a shred of my money" standpoint in recent years.

I think some of the stuff you mention still applies to the NBA, but not as strongly. The players are just better. Yes, it's only about 1/3rd of the league, but you look at the handful of teams that have great ball movement offenses and are exploiting the 3 pointer and I think you can see that you can have offense in a shot clock, 3 point heavy league.

People make the argument that NBA players don't play defense, but that is and always have been garbage. The simply fact is that the hustle your ass off stuff that works in college against less talented shooters and ball handles just doesn't work against the best players. If you get in a guys face, he's gonna go right by you, or make you foul him. But, I hardly watch NBA anymore either. Again, the ref'ing is so atrocious. And the lack of "finishing school" as 3rd and 4th year players in college before you go the the NBA and coaching is less about teaching and more about managing egos that has gone on for 20 years now really shows.

[RonCo]

The NBA issue is a bit different. The NBA is a physical grind of 82 games--when really they probably only need 40 to separate the best from the worst.

NBA players are physically much more mature than college players, and yes, they play defense. But they also have to stay on the floor for 82 games, and the league is in business to make money. Refs have ALWAYS given stars preferential treatment for this reason. It's also part of why they allow traveling. If you give a magnificent athlete authority to not dribble they can do some pretty amazing things, and people will pay money for it. If they don't allow traveling and massive palming, then a lot of those guys who you say will blow right past you, won't be able to. The NBA, with its 24-second clock is about quick offense and scoring off the dribble. Yes, there is some motion, but the fundamental idea is one based on penetration. Guards travel almost every trip down the floor in the NBA _because_ the NBA plays defense. If they didn't travel and palm the ball, offenses would stall.

The press doesn't work as well in the NBA either, because offense is quite stripped down and shooters are so much better. Defense in the NBA is about containing run outs and reducing open court basketball in which the oppositions' athletes can make use of that athleticism. You never want to give an NBA shooter an open shot in transition. Bottom line. So, no press. With the shot clock at 24, it's not needed too much, anyway.

I actually stopped seeing the NBA as a real sport 15- 20 years ago. To me, it's more performance art than sport. Especially after about 40 games.

I don't know about performance art, but yeah, I see all your arguments. I honestly do think if they did call all the palming and travels it would get better (defenses would work, you'd have to play a more team oriented offense, you could call fouls when people were fouled because all the over-sized guards and forwards wouldn't just run over defenders anymore without dribbling), but in a lot of ways, the players simply have outgrown the sport physically.

[7teen]

I agree with the OP. Hurt the CUBS! and CARDS for that matter - signed Chris, a REDS fan!!! haha

NBA is a joke. Just watch Hockey! and on that same note I hope all of the Penguins catch herpes!

[Ted]

Ron and I did get on a bit of a rant about basketball, but this was really about guys crowing the plate, and Rizzo is one of the worst I've seen. It's not that I want him hurt, it's that he seems to be breaking the rules and getting away with it.

[JohnC]

Most pitchers are afraid to pitch inside these days. Low and away...low and away...He can crowd the plate because for the most part he doesn't fear getting hit. Half the guys these days are practically wearing body armor on their front arm when they hit anyway. The hands would be the only place to hit him that would send a message.