15 things I loved about Into the Spider-Verse

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15 things I loved about Into the Spider-Verse

Post by RonCo » Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:45 pm

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Re: 15 things I loved about Into the Spider-Verse

Post by recte44 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:50 pm

No love for John Mulaney?
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Re: 15 things I loved about Into the Spider-Verse

Post by RonCo » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:49 am

I could have gone deeper. :)
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Re: 15 things I loved about Into the Spider-Verse

Post by niles08 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:14 am

Took my kids to this a few weeks back. I thought it was actually an alright movie as well. I went in with reserved expectations since it was an animated movie and thought it would gear more towards them but I enjoyed it and had a few laughs.
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Re: 15 things I loved about Into the Spider-Verse

Post by usnspecialist » Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:28 am

Now the Oscar winning into the spiderverse.
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Re: 15 things I loved about Into the Spider-Verse

Post by Ted » Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:40 am

usnspecialist wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:28 am
Now the Oscar winning into the spiderverse.
Award shows are a joke. Take whatever is at the front of social consciousness, parlay it into a movie, win an award. Is the movie better than the other movies that don't have the oppressed group or hot button social topic of the day? Doesn't matter. You pandered to the mob. Here's a trophy. (Please don't confuse my lack of respect for the Oscars and other awards shows with a lack of concern and respect for the issues that plague our society.)
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Re: 15 things I loved about Into the Spider-Verse

Post by usnspecialist » Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:55 am

Ted wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:40 am
usnspecialist wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:28 am
Now the Oscar winning into the spiderverse.
Award shows are a joke. Take whatever is at the front of social consciousness, parlay it into a movie, win an award. Is the movie better than the other movies that don't have the oppressed group or hot button social topic of the day? Doesn't matter. You pandered to the mob. Here's a trophy. (Please don't confuse my lack of respect for the Oscars and other awards shows with a lack of concern and respect for the issues that plague our society.)
Not that i don't disagree with you in general, but the Oscars this year actually managed to screw up the hot button social issue of the day by giving green book best picture (a movie that pretty well blunders the issue of race relations and waa written by a guy who promoted racist 9/11 conspiracy theories on Twitter). Also spiderverse won best animated movie, about as non controversial a category as you can have lol.
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Re: 15 things I loved about Into the Spider-Verse

Post by bcslouck » Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:57 am

Ted wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:40 am
Award shows are a joke. Take whatever is at the front of social consciousness, parlay it into a movie, win an award. Is the movie better than the other movies that don't have the oppressed group or hot button social topic of the day? Doesn't matter. You pandered to the mob. Here's a trophy. (Please don't confuse my lack of respect for the Oscars and other awards shows with a lack of concern and respect for the issues that plague our society.)
I agree with you but this won for animated movie. In most cases, there is a clear winner with like 4 other candidates. And you've probably never heard of the other 2. Definitely the case this year.
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Re: 15 things I loved about Into the Spider-Verse

Post by Ted » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:23 am

usnspecialist wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:55 am
Ted wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:40 am
usnspecialist wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:28 am
Now the Oscar winning into the spiderverse.
Award shows are a joke. Take whatever is at the front of social consciousness, parlay it into a movie, win an award. Is the movie better than the other movies that don't have the oppressed group or hot button social topic of the day? Doesn't matter. You pandered to the mob. Here's a trophy. (Please don't confuse my lack of respect for the Oscars and other awards shows with a lack of concern and respect for the issues that plague our society.)
Not that i don't disagree with you in general, but the Oscars this year actually managed to screw up the hot button social issue of the day by giving green book best picture (a movie that pretty well blunders the issue of race relations and waa written by a guy who promoted racist 9/11 conspiracy theories on Twitter). Also spiderverse won best animated movie, about as non controversial a category as you can have lol.
I think you more or less proved my point. They're idiots. I suppose the current version is better than the hipster 90's and early 2000 oscars where if you've heard of it, it couldn't win. Now we have a mix of that and the social hot button stuff. I probably picked a rather non controversial pick as my time to yell at clouds.
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Re: 15 things I loved about Into the Spider-Verse

Post by niles08 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:42 am

I was surprised Incredibles 2 didn't win the Oscar....
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Re: 15 things I loved about Into the Spider-Verse

Post by Ted » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:50 am

niles08 wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:42 am
I was surprised Incredibles 2 didn't win the Oscar....
Full disclosure, I didn't see either (yet. They'll both be on netflix someday. I've heard good things about both), but I'll guess that the deciding factor (and only factor) was that one had multiracial spidermans that could stoke the hopes and dreams of the childrens everywhere, and the other was about a white family with super powers.

This was probably your point, but I like to go ahead and do this

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Re: 15 things I loved about Into the Spider-Verse

Post by niles08 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:00 am

Incredibles 2 is actually on netflix now...I would take a look at it...

But the reason I was surprised it didn't win is because of the female empowerment that was relevant throughout the movie. The dad stayed home with the kids while Elastagirl went out and beat the bad guys...
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Re: 15 things I loved about Into the Spider-Verse

Post by RonCo » Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:44 am

Seeing as I work in this kind of field, I suppose it's fair to say I have opinions on this kind of point of view. Simplifying, it's very rare that a bad product wins awards. Into the Spiderverse won because it's massively awesome, as well as because it appealed to the people who vote. Incredibles is another example of a great piece of animation art that didn't win. That doesn't mean it was worse (or better) than something that did win. That's the world for people in creative environments. To suggest something wins or loses merely because of its social construct is too easy of an argument, in my humble mind, because that discounts all the very socially aware products out there that did not win.

As a fiction writer, it's always helped me to keep three ideas in mind:

1) No one wakes up and decides "you know, I think I'm going to make a horrible book (movie, song, whatever)"
2) My taste is different from others
2) Horrible art rarely wins real awards

There are, of course, pages and pages more I could write on the subject...I've been nominated for a few awards, and won a couple of those. The ... er .... politics ... of all awards is littered with ambiguity.

Kind of like how I can look at Andy McKinney and see a league best OPS, wOBA, amd wRC+ and see Sawyer Silk, but only a few others can. :)
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Re: 15 things I loved about Into the Spider-Verse

Post by RonCo » Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:52 am

niles08 wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:00 am
But the reason I was surprised it didn't win is because of the female empowerment that was relevant throughout the movie. The dad stayed home with the kids while Elastagirl went out and beat the bad guys...
This is a reasonable lens to look at it through--especially when you take into account the voting block for the Oscars is a highly feminist group.

Realize that, to the general public, Spiderman--beyond being beautifully done (it's technical detail is an amazing homage to old comics, an artistic element that puts it above the crowd all on its own) was a also full of very new ideas and highly inventive. Incredibles, as great as it is, is considerably more conventional. Spiderman is essentially a generational art. Everything that comes thereafter will be derivative. It's also a great story, if hit all the buttons of its core fanbase, and yes, it hits lots of socially conscious buttons. As Michael Caine said in Miss Congeniality, "You can't beat that."

You're right, though, Spiderman beat out a very well done, highly successful film that included female empowerment at its core. Make of that what you will.
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Re: 15 things I loved about Into the Spider-Verse

Post by niles08 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:00 pm

RonCo wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:52 am
niles08 wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:00 am
But the reason I was surprised it didn't win is because of the female empowerment that was relevant throughout the movie. The dad stayed home with the kids while Elastagirl went out and beat the bad guys...
This is a reasonable lens to look at it through--especially when you take into account the voting block for the Oscars is a highly feminist group.

Realize that, to the general public, Spiderman--beyond being beautifully done (it's technical detail is an amazing homage to old comics, an artistic element that puts it above the crowd all on its own) was a also full of very new ideas and highly inventive. Incredibles, as great as it is, is considerably more conventional. Spiderman is essentially a generational art. Everything that comes thereafter will be derivative. It's also a great story, if hit all the buttons of its core fanbase, and yes, it hits lots of socially conscious buttons. As Michael Caine said in Miss Congeniality, "You can't beat that."

You're right, though, Spiderman beat out a very well done, highly successful film that included female empowerment at its core. Make of that what you will.
I personally enjoyed both movies very much. On top of the female empowerment part of the Incredibles, I just felt like it had much more hype beforehand and even after since it basically captured folks who had seen the first Incredibles move in 04 or whatever year it was and were now taking their kids so the box office numbers were over $1 billion for The Incredibles compared to quite a bit lower(not sure the actual number) for Spiderman. It was quite an upset for me in my head based on how popular the movies were. Granted, I do agree both were very well done movies. I personally could have even see Wreck It Ralph take the Oscar for some odd reason as that one was well done as well in my head.
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Re: 15 things I loved about Into the Spider-Verse

Post by Ted » Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:09 pm

Again, I'm excited to see both. Just being snarky.
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Re: 15 things I loved about Into the Spider-Verse

Post by RonCo » Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:14 pm

niles08 wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:00 pm

I personally enjoyed both movies very much. On top of the female empowerment part of the Incredibles, I just felt like it had much more hype beforehand and even after since it basically captured folks who had seen the first Incredibles move in 04 or whatever year it was and were now taking their kids so the box office numbers were over $1 billion for The Incredibles compared to quite a bit lower(not sure the actual number) for Spiderman. It was quite an upset for me in my head based on how popular the movies were. Granted, I do agree both were very well done movies. I personally could have even see Wreck It Ralph take the Oscar for some odd reason as that one was well done as well in my head.
The politics of an award (and by that I do not mean the social elements generally being discussed here) are often very deep and multi-layered. Box office is an indicator, but not a big one. Rotten Tomato public rating is an indicator, but not a big one. The Academy Awards are given out by a group of professional insiders. That means they have a culture that looks at the question of "what is best" in ways that take into account all the things we take into account, but they weight them differently and then they add more of their own views, relationships, and artistic perspectives.

It's always interesting to see the different takes on awards from the different awarding bodies.

In my own SF literature field, there are numerous tiers of awards given each year (Nebulas, Hugos, Stokers, Edgars, World Fantasy, Derringers, etc). Given the overlap in eligibility, it's always fun to see how different the results are. Look no further than the voting population and how they see the world to understand why this is. The recent Sad/Rabid puppy saga in the Hugo awards (which is fan nominated/voted) is the most ugly and direct example of warring factions in a single population.
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Re: 15 things I loved about Into the Spider-Verse

Post by RonCo » Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:15 pm

Ted wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:09 pm
Again, I'm excited to see both. Just being snarky.
I love you like a brother, Ted, but saying the Spiderverse beat the Incredibles because it was about POC is not really just being snarky. :)
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Re: 15 things I loved about Into the Spider-Verse

Post by RonCo » Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:22 pm

My personal view is that there's a reason why I wrote a blog post on 15 reasons I loved Spiderverse, and not one on Incredibles. I see a lot of movies, really. But I rarely write blog posts on them these days.

Again, though, that's my personal view. Yours can vary. :)
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Re: 15 things I loved about Into the Spider-Verse

Post by Ted » Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:31 pm

RonCo wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:15 pm
Ted wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:09 pm
Again, I'm excited to see both. Just being snarky.
I love you like a brother, Ted, but saying the Spiderverse beat the Incredibles because it was about POC is not really just being snarky. :)
This is fair. I actually typed up a really long winded response about my fears about how embattled groups become more tribal which then leads to more racism and bigotry, and how as a society we are buying into this as okay. "Whatever is good for the group that I have decided is the good guys must be right". For example, the very liberal leaning friends I have who have echoed many social media and actual media outlets who think Bernie (not a guy I would vote for, by the way, if you're trying to see agenda in my comments) shouldn't run again because he is old and white (their words), and there are young, female, or brown potential candidates and they would be better because they are young, female or brown (my assumption based on their words). The apparent acceptance of the hypocrisy being racist and bigoted in a fight to be less racist and bigoted by our society is jarring and frightening to me. "Movies that push social agendas are better than movies that don't because they promote certain ethnicities, cultures, or behaviors", is how this gets to the Oscars. But really awards shows are a small thing. They've always been silly. IN the late 90's, early 200's it was "the award goes to the movie the least people have seen!" Back to the more important issue, I understand why we are here. Humans are what humans are. It's just very concerning to me.

I just figured that this wasn't the place for that discussion, and my last post was a weak and disingenuous attempt to disengage. Sorry.

Regarding the actual movies, I really do want to see Into the Spiderverse. I love comics. Was never a big Spiderman guy, but still. It does look amazing and I like what I have seen of the art. I do want to see the Incredibles, but I've already seen one of those, so I'm less excited about it.
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