PP Reward: Position Specialization

[recte44]

Position Specialization:

Improve a players ability to play one position by taking away his ability to play others by spending PP's.

What it Costs:
1) A GM will spend 20 PP to use this reward, and can only use this reward on one player per season.

Who is Eligible:
1) Any position player who is 28 years of age or younger, and who has no MBBA experience, and who has multiple position ability already established.
2) This player must not have had any specialization previously in his career.

How it Works:
1) You can improve one Position Rating by removing points from another already established position.
2) To improve the Position Rating on the selected position by 10 points on the internal 1-250 scale, you must take 50 points on the internal 1-250 scale away from another position.
3) You may only improve ONE position.
4) You may not improve a position higher than "15" on the 1-20 scale..
5) You may not reduce a currently established position below "2" on the 1-20 scale.
6) You may only improve positions that are LEFT on the Defensive Spectrum, as follows:
First Base, Left Field, Right Field, Third Base, Center Field, Second Baseman, Shortstop, Catcher

Example:
1) "Jim Fielder" is currently rated "12" at Shortstop, "10" at Second Base, "5" at Left Field, "8" at First Base, and "8" at Third Base.
2) GM decides to spend 20 PP to specialize him as a left fielder.
3) All of his established positions are RIGHT of Left Field except for First Base, so his points for First Base cannot be used here.
4) GM decides to take 6 points away from Third Base position rating and 4 points away from Second Base position= 10 points.
5) Those 10 points are divided by 5 to equal 2 points that will be applied to his current Left Field rating.
6) New Ratings= "12" at Shortstop, "6" at Second Base, "7" at Left Field, "8" at First Base, and "3" at Third Base. (estimated, may be slightly different as mathematical equations are done on the internal 1-250 scale).

[recte44]

As the math doesn't always translate exactly from what I need to do on the internal 1-250 scale to the 1-10/1-20 scales, I've edited the top post to more accurately reflect what I do to make these adjustments.

[udlb58]

So....

This reward has never been used if my search criteria was right. Only twice has it even been attempted and both times, incorrectly.

Has there ever been any thought in allowing major league players to be included in this, and/or removing the age limit? I understand not wanting to make anything too powerful, but this simply allows a team to transition an aging vet to a better position without having to suffer through him being an absolute hack for the first 1/3 of the season (see Benjamin Franklin Pearce). I don't have anyone in mind for my team this year, but would seem that this might be a viable award if opened up.

[recte44]

Post your suggestion in League Polls- let's see what the people say.

[Ted]

So, Tyler asked about this last season and Matt you told him to post a poll, but it never happened. I'd like to second the idea of looking at it again. I agree with removing the age restriction, so you can say move an aging CF to a corner or a SS to 3rd or whatever. So how about this proposal? I'll make a poll if you want.

Any player is eligible. The reward can only be used to move "down" either the OF or IF spectrum. It can't be used to put an OF in the IF or vice versa. You can only use it if a player has a rating at the new position of 3 or less, and they have to be 6 or higher in the position they are already at. The reward is to use 0-40 PP to get a player 0-40 points of experience on the internal slider at an eligible position as described above.

The idea is that a former CF of SS SHOULD be able to play the other positions either in the OF or IF, respectively with at least some proficiency. So if you have an OF with a 7 rating in center, but no rating in RF and a 1 in LF, you can get a jump start on transitioning him and maybe get another point or two of defense at the position in spring training.

This sounds powerful, but the limit of having to have a 3 or lower rating at the position you are transferring to would limit it somewhat, and I think it helps patch a problem OOTP has with realism in its defensive ratings. A competent (which is why we said at least 6) defender at a premium position SHOULD be able to play at at least a slightly below replacement level at other similar positions.

[recte44]

I'm fine with that- can you Ping: Commish with the exact changes I need to make and where (Constitution, PP Forum, or both)

[Ted]

Sure

[udlb58]

Post your suggestion in League Polls- let's see what the people say.

Somehow I missed this, I'm working on a poll to be put up later today.

[Ted]

Tyler - What do you think of what I just put up? I think it serves the purpose well. Matt seems okay with it.

[aaronweiner]

Totally fine with me. I would give the caveat that outfielders could become first basemen if they wanted but not another position.

[GoldenOne]

Did this idea ever make it anywhere? I've got a guy at BBA level that I would like to convert, maybe, someday.

[Ted]

Did this idea ever make it anywhere? I've got a guy at BBA level that I would like to convert, maybe, someday.

OOTP is considerably better at people leaning new positions if they are "similar" (IF to IF, OF to OF) and down the defensive spectrum. The need for this reward is probably getting close to non existent. Who are you thinking about?

[ae37jr]

OOTP is considerably better at people leaning new positions if they are "similar" (IF to IF, OF to OF) and down the defensive spectrum. The need for this reward is probably getting close to non existent. Who are you thinking about?

I can't speak for Brett's player. But I was curious about trying this myself with Chris Workman. I see Ted's point. He went from 0-5 at 3B in just 80 games(lifted for defensive sub in the 7th). With some reps in spring training he would gain even more experiance. But my reasoning is that he can get there faster with this reward. Maybe it gets him to 7 and then spring reps pushes him to 8? 8 Exp should make him an average/ slightly above average defender while 6 is well below.

[GoldenOne]

Was thinking along the same lines as Alan. Not really ready to do this yet but some guys like Manuel Martinez or Harold Smith
or Jesus Mojica could be potential for some decent corner OF or 1B skills as they start to get older. The extra flexibility is great right now but they could ultimately be that really good defensive player and useful bench player in a few years.

[usnspecialist]

I'm sure Ted has thoughts on all things Chris workman related lol.

[Ted]

Was thinking along the same lines as Alan. Not really ready to do this yet but some guys like Manuel Martinez or Harold Smith
or Jesus Mojica could be potential for some decent corner OF or 1B skills as they start to get older. The extra flexibility is great right now but they could ultimately be that really good defensive player and useful bench player in a few years.

All this reward does is shift the internal experience counter's points. It doesn't do anything about a player's inherent ability to learn a position. It also does so in a very inefficient matter. Now that players learn "down" the defensive spectrum more quickly, and spring training is so effective for learning new positions, this reward has much less impact. That no one ever used it before it was easier to learn defense should tell you something about how useful it is.

As for those players.
If you just play Manuel Martinez in LF and RF for 15 games apiece in ST, you'll get him to near his max at corner OF (probably 6-8 at each depending on his range). There's almost no reason to play him at 1B. The flexibility is something, but any first baseman you cant get on your roster almost has to be a better bat there by default. He doesn't have the arm for third and short, so even if his bat is okay there, his D will be so bad to make it not worth the time.

Harold Smith is unable to play anywhere but corner OF. He doesn't have the range for CH. He's be horrid. He also doesn't have the range for 1B. "One" range 1b's are almost always terrible, even if their error and arm ratings get them to a 3 or 4 composite rating. Smith probably can't even get past 1. His range is one and his error is two. He' doesn't have the defensive ratings to play any position other than the two corner OF spot's he's already good at.

If you play Jesus Mojica in left for spring training for say 15-20 games, he'll probably get to 5. Maybe six, which is likely his max in LF. He's already maxed out at 3B and RF most likely. He could get a little better at first, but again, jsut play him there. He's already good enough that it won't hurt.

What I really recommend to anyone using any kind of player conversion or specialization reward is to do it yourself before spending the PP. Create a new game. Just use the default MLB league, and familiarize yourself with the player editor. SP/RP conversions take a bit to get used to because changing one internal number can change two visible ones, but it's not that complicated. You'll also get familiar with things that will help you make scouting decisions. Things like "Can player X play Y position with those defensive ratings? What's the best he can get at that position. " Or learn how "contact" isn't a rating. It's a composite of BABIP, avk, and power. You get a better understanding of what "7 contact" means. It's not always the same thing. I suppose at this point we all know what babip is, but playing with those internal numbers can really show you just how dependent on babip fluctuations a low power, low avk player is. Or conversely, see how a guy with huge power and high avk is may end up being a lower babip guy that you'd expect when his contact is modest. While this again makes intuitive sense, having the numbers there to back it u can help interpret results and hone expectations. There's just so much to be gleaned. But at the very least, do the conversion or specialization yourself before you spend the points on it . Save yourself some hard earned PP's. If you have a question as to whether you're doing it right, I'm always happy to help.

[GoldenOne]

Was thinking along the same lines as Alan. Not really ready to do this yet but some guys like Manuel Martinez or Harold Smith
or Jesus Mojica could be potential for some decent corner OF or 1B skills as they start to get older. The extra flexibility is great right now but they could ultimately be that really good defensive player and useful bench player in a few years.

All this reward does is shift the internal experience counter's points. It doesn't do anything about a player's inherent ability to learn a position. It also does so in a very inefficient matter. Now that players learn "down" the defensive spectrum more quickly, and spring training is so effective for learning new positions, this reward has much less impact. That no one ever used it before it was easier to learn defense should tell you something about how useful it is.

Just because no one has used it before doesnt mean it cant be effective from time to time. That it hasnt been done just means nobody has wanted to try it. The way the rules are set up right now, I wouldnt want to use it - why do that to anyone in your minors that has the potential to make it to the BBA. However, I can see it being useful for aging veterans. The rules dont allow that so nobody has even been able to try it.

I have no interest in doing that with any one of those guys anytime in the near future - was just using them as examples. If I still have Martinez around in 5 seasons, maybe I think about it though. In the interim, yes, I can play him at many positions, and not just in ST, and start getting his ratings up and I have many years to do it. I just like having options. If I play Martinez at 1B and get him up to a 3 there, he turns 32, I get a better and younger 2B and my OF is full, my first baseman finds himself with a CEI.....why wouldnt I look at this as an option? All that happening is a very long shot but you never know what may happen and it never hurts to have options.

Besides, I was just asking. We can use PPs to add a nickname to someone, why would it hurt to be able to have this option as well. Who cares if it never gets used...its there if you want to use it.

[Ted]

Besides, I was just asking. We can use PPs to add a nickname to someone, why would it hurt to be able to have this option as well. Who cares if it never gets used...its there if you want to use it.

And I was answering. Honestly and the the best of my ability. I don't think your asking was unreasonable. My answer was to indicate that in my opinion and OOTP experience, spending PP in the current version to teach a player an easier position is a waste of PP, regardless of age. You simply don't need to do it. Disagree all you like. You've certainly shown that you've managed to do things I wouldn't and build the beginning of a solid team. But again, you asked. I answered. If you don't want honest answer (that may be wrong because I don't know everything), then don't ask in a public forum.

[GoldenOne]

Besides, I was just asking. We can use PPs to add a nickname to someone, why would it hurt to be able to have this option as well. Who cares if it never gets used...its there if you want to use it.

And I was answering. Honestly and the the best of my ability. I don't think your asking was unreasonable. My answer was to indicate that in my opinion and OOTP experience, spending PP in the current version to teach a player an easier position is a waste of PP, regardless of age. You simply don't need to do it. Disagree all you like. You've certainly shown that you've managed to do things I wouldn't and build the beginning of a solid team. But again, you asked. I answered. If you don't want honest answer (that may be wrong because I don't know everything), then don't ask in a public forum.

Grab a beer Ted and watch Norte Dame take a beating tonight.

All-in-all, I just think this PP reward would be better for older guys in their waning years of the BBA as opposed to the younger ones that have never made it to the BBA. Maybe it could even make sense to set it up for those corner OF guys that have crap ratings at 1B to allow for a better conversion. RP converts get get bumps to their pitches and speed. Maybe that corner OF guy could go from a 1 to a 3 for IF range or something. I know, use ST and sprinkle him in at the other position here and there and he’ll get the bumps. Why can’t it be used like an aging vet being told to learn a new position in the off season? Don’t just poo on the idea because you don’t like it, have a beer and throw out ideas that might make it worthwhile. Could be the one thing that gets you over the top for a Landis at some point.

[ae37jr]

The thing about this game... we do not manage it. We can set up our depth chart to the best of our ability, but as the game plays out, we rely heavily on what moves our managers make. Beyond depth charts, our managers use positional ratings to determine who plays where. If a player has a one rating at a position... he is fair game. So this reward is equal parts "I want this player to not play this position as much" and "I want this player to get better at this position".

I've learned this the hard way over the years. In fact Harold Smith in CF/1B was my doing. When he was in the minors he mastered the corners in no time. So I figured may as well train him in the next logical positions he could remotely play if you squinted really hard. It was a bad idea. Because now it gives the manager the green light to play them at that position whenever they feel like it.