PP Reward: Starting Pitcher Conversion

[recte44]

Starting Pitcher Conversion:

Attempt to convert a young pitcher to a Starting Pitcher by adding a third pitch.

What it Costs:
1) A GM will spend 20 PP to use this reward, and can only use this reward on one player per season.

Who is Eligible:
1) Any pitcher with no BBA/UMEBA/GBC experience, and who is 25 years of age or younger.
2) Any pitcher who currently has two or less pitches, and an Stamina of 5 or higher.
3) This player must not have had any specialization previously in his career.

How it Works:
1) In using this Reward, a GM will be able to add a third pitch of their choice to the pitchers arsenal.
2) New Pitch added will be a "40" potential on the 1-250 internal scale, actual= "10" on internal 1-250 scale
3) Two existing pitches will be decreased by 10 points each on both their Actual and Potential levels on the internal 1-250 scale
4) Velocity will be decreased two levels on the Velocity scale
5) Stamina will be increased by 10 points on the internal 1-250 scale

Example:
1) "Joe Hurler" is a current RP.
2) His current ratings are: Stamina= "11"; Fastball= "6" actual/ "8" potential; Curveball= "4" actual/ "7" potential; Velocity= "92-94".
3) His team chooses to use the "Starting Pitcher Conversion" Reward to attempt to convert him into a starting pitcher.
4) They choose to add a CU, which gets added at "40" potential on the internal 1-250 scale, "10" actual on internal 1-250 scale
5) Fastball was a "6" actual/ "8" potential; it is reduced by 10 points each on the internal 1-250 scale
6) Curveball was a "4" actual/ "7" potential; it is reduced by 10 points each on the internal 1-250 scale
7) Velocity was "92-94"; it becomes "90-92".
8) Stamina was an "11"; it is increased by 10 points on the internal 1-250 scale

[recte44]

Just FYI, when these changes get made the numbers don't always exactly reflect the math....in-game though we subtract 10 pts from the exisiting pitches.

Velocity decrease impacts these numbers as well.

[recte44]

As the math doesn't always translate exactly from what I need to do on the internal 1-250 scale to the 1-10/1-20 scales, I've edited the top post to more accurately reflect what I do to make these adjustments.

[aaronweiner]

Do you think that more people would use this reward if we made it a 50 or 60 on the internal scale?

[7teen]

Someone did an article on the SP conversions a while back. I don't think there is a high success rate using this conversion like there is with the RP one.

Ive used it once (Guillermo Gomez). I think he would have been successful had his CO rating not tanked soon after the conversion.

[aaronweiner]

Robert Shaffer is the most famous example.

I was just thinking about this because I'm so far ahead on the previews that I'm doing the draft article, and it occurs to me that there are some viable candidates for the reward in this draft.

[7teen]

Robert Shaffer is the most famous example.

I was just thinking about this because I'm so far ahead on the previews that I'm doing the draft article, and it occurs to me that there are some viable candidates for the reward in this draft.

I'm curious as to who you're thinking. Carlos Sanchez is the only one that sort of stands out to me. But the drop in his 2 pitches to add a 3rd, and the drop in his velocity, will likely drop his stuff rating down to a 5 potential. Then he becomes pretty worthless.

With the way things are currently set up, in order to use this reward, you need to take a stud reliever (someone with high stuff, movement, and control ratings along with 2 dominant pitches) and then add the 3rd pitch. His pitches will lose ratings and so will his stuff but he'll still make a good starter. Perhaps your proposal fixes that. I don't understand all of the internal scale workings.

[aaronweiner]

Sanchez was the one I had in mind, yeah. If he was 7-7-4 or 7-7-5 in pitches, he's a viable #4 starter instead of a good reliever.

[cheekimonk]

Do you think that more people would use this reward if we made it a 50 or 60 on the internal scale?

I've actually considered the math on this...both when I was on GB and recently. Covert to RP is used SO much it seems obvious that this reward is unbalanced. At the 30,000-foot view, it seems it would make sense to make this worth it on top MR/borderline Setup guys as oppose to only complete stud setup/closer types. Convert to RP is never used for a #1/2 starter and that essentially is what this reward requires only in the bullpen. Find a way to make it workable, but still a gamble, for the equivalent of a #3/4 to AAAA starter? There would have to be some number crunching.

[crobillard]

That third pitch isn't good enough to make a viable starter. A GB% tweak might help, but I think the potential on that third pitch would have to be 125 points instead of 40 to make it a decent enough pitch. For me, I'm not paying 20 PP to give a guy a shitty third pitch.

[7teen]

When I converted Guillermo Gomez years ago, he started as a:

9-9-7 Talent pitcher with 99-101 velocity and a fastball rating of 10 and a splitter rating of 9.

After the conversion, he became an:
8-9-7 pitcher with 97-99 velocity and a fastball rating of 9, splitter rating of 8, and a slider of 4.

A few sims after the conversion, his velocity bumped back up to 99-101 again. I felt I had a pretty solid starter at 8-9-7 with pitch ratings of 9-8-4. Yeah, the slider was weak but he was good enough to be a top starter. The game projected him as the #9 prospect AFTER the conversion.

Unfortunately, he lumped his control from 7 to 5 very soon thereafter and never quite made it. He went from 9 to 93 on the prospect list. He has shuffled around from starter to reliever his whole career with moderate success. I think had it not been for the lump in his control, he could have made a very solid #2 or #3 starter.

[7teen]

When this reward was created, I want to say we had a time period where the draft was generating a lot of top notch bullpen guys. Relievers with high Stuff, Movement, and Control ratings with 2 high pitches but wasn't creating very many starting pitchers. This reward was created as a way for owners to risk turning these relievers into starters.

Looking at real life though, the way we have it set up is right. It is probably easier in real life to turn a sub par starter into a decent reliever than it is to turn a reliever into a solid starter.

[agrudez]

Someone did an article on the SP conversions a while back. I don't think there is a high success rate using this conversion like there is with the RP one.

http://baseballretrospective.com/MBBA/p ... conversion

"There have been 21 total SP conversions in league history, of those converted there have been only 3 all-stars (Brown, Nichols and Crocker) with 2 projected to eventually plausibly join them (Shaffer and Schumaker)"

Based on the date posted, this would've been around the 2010 season, I believe.

[aaronweiner]

It's almost never used anymore.

[indiansfan]

And Schumaker didn't work out ad SP. Spent career as setup man. If I had left him alone would have been a closer

[agrudez]

If you really want to spruce this reward up, you should add an addendum to make it possible to upgrade one of their current pitches 20 points on the internal rating (ie. enough for 1 bump in the 1-10). Only do the potential, though, and not the overall or else it might get a little overpowered. Also, you probably have to cap it at a once or twice in each player's lifetime for the same reason.

[crobillard]

If you really want to spruce this reward up, you should add an addendum to make it possible to upgrade one of their current pitches 20 points on the internal rating (ie. enough for 1 bump in the 1-10). Only do the potential, though, and not the overall or else it might get a little overpowered. Also, you probably have to cap it at a once or twice in each player's lifetime for the same reason.

Would it cost 20 more PP to do the addendum? and with this reward you are decreasing the two pitches the pitcher already has so are you decreasing the pitch's current rating by 10 and increasing its potential by 20?

It's an interesting idea, but would it actually be more effective?

[bschr682]

It should be rare. Starters aren't supposed to grow on trees.

[aaronweiner]

It should be rare. Starters aren't supposed to grow on trees.

My concern isn't that it should happen more or less often. It just shouldn't be what I consider to be a pretty terrible reward.

[bschr682]

It should be rare. Starters aren't supposed to grow on trees.

My concern isn't that it should happen more or less often. It just shouldn't be what I consider to be a pretty terrible reward.

True, true. I just think the moment it becomes a good reward it will immediately become overpowered. I don't think there is even a way to make it balanced without it becoming game breaking.