Des Moines/Omaha

Confirmation and pre-sim instructions from both owners needed; please don't reply until both owners have confirmed
User avatar
RonCo
GB: JL Frontier Division Director
Posts: 19815
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:48 pm
Has thanked: 1982 times
Been thanked: 2902 times

Re: Des Moines/Omaha

Post by RonCo » Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:00 pm

Ted wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:52 pm
Hale doesn't a have a lot of playing time, but I think everyone would agree his performance is in line with his ratings.
To be honest with you, as a division mate, I think Hale is over-performing his ratings a bit. Don't get me wrong. He's a good catcher, but I don't see him getting on base at that .340 clip unless he's in a very hard platoon, and I don't see him hitting 5 homers in 75 PA against LHP again ever. His BABIP is .234. None of these make me think he's going to maintain.

But that's just me.
GM: Bikini Krill
Nothing Matters But the Pacific Pennant
Roster

User avatar
RonCo
GB: JL Frontier Division Director
Posts: 19815
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:48 pm
Has thanked: 1982 times
Been thanked: 2902 times

Re: Des Moines/Omaha

Post by RonCo » Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:03 pm

niles08 wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:00 pm
I would truly argue that the league's quick reaction to this trade that caused Yellow Springs & Des Moines to eliminate Frazier & Wulms from this trade actually hurt Des Moines as I believe that Frazier would better benefit Des Moines than Wulms would.
Thank goodness that the league shamed Ed into giving me Frazier for Wulms.
GM: Bikini Krill
Nothing Matters But the Pacific Pennant
Roster

User avatar
Edward Murphy
Ex-GM
Posts: 2041
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:10 am
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 26 times

Re: Des Moines/Omaha

Post by Edward Murphy » Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:29 pm

From all the comments looks like another bonehead trade again. In the past GMs felt I kept Moreland and Arreola to long and should have traded then earlier. Now I’m looking for more prospects to feed the ML and feel FA bats are easy to find, but FA pitching is costly. Maybe it is my fault not reaching out for advice more offend. Dam if I do Dam if I don’t
Edward Murphy

Image

Playing with a Purpose
awm53222@yahoo.com

User avatar
niles08
BBA GM
Posts: 2507
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:15 pm
Has thanked: 168 times
Been thanked: 424 times

Re: Des Moines/Omaha

Post by niles08 » Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:30 pm

RonCo wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:03 pm
niles08 wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:00 pm
I would truly argue that the league's quick reaction to this trade that caused Yellow Springs & Des Moines to eliminate Frazier & Wulms from this trade actually hurt Des Moines as I believe that Frazier would better benefit Des Moines than Wulms would.
Thank goodness that the league shamed Ed into giving me Frazier for Wulms.
I'm one of the few who petitioned to keep the trade when it happened.

I'm guessing Ed would rather have had a 2.0 WAR 23 year old utility player who hit 21 home runs in under 250 at bats than a pitcher in AAA with an ERA in the double digits.
Image

User avatar
RonCo
GB: JL Frontier Division Director
Posts: 19815
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:48 pm
Has thanked: 1982 times
Been thanked: 2902 times

Re: Des Moines/Omaha

Post by RonCo » Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:46 pm

Edward Murphy wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:29 pm
From all the comments looks like another bonehead trade again. In the past GMs felt I kept Moreland and Arreola to long and should have traded then earlier. Now I’m looking for more prospects to feed the ML and feel FA bats are easy to find, but FA pitching is costly. Maybe it is my fault not reaching out for advice more offend. Dam if I do Dam if I don’t
You're fine Ed. Just have fun.
GM: Bikini Krill
Nothing Matters But the Pacific Pennant
Roster

agrudez
Ex-GM
Posts: 7681
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:30 am
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 47 times

Re: Des Moines/Omaha

Post by agrudez » Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:08 pm

Edward Murphy wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:29 pm
From all the comments looks like another bonehead trade again. In the past GMs felt I kept Moreland and Arreola to long and should have traded then earlier. Now I’m looking for more prospects to feed the ML and feel FA bats are easy to find, but FA pitching is costly. Maybe it is my fault not reaching out for advice more offend. Dam if I do Dam if I don’t
Ed, there are a lot of GMs that aren't honest brokers in trade dealings in this league. Honestly, some days it feels like there are less that are on the up and up than those whom aren't. Those whom are vocal on the subject bring it up often in the hopes that it will sink into the MBBA Id to enact positive change. That has not worked, obviously. Further, these GMs have some habitual victims that they continually go back to the well to and, to be perfectly blunt, you are one of them. I hate that these public displays of outrage might make you feel bad. It's a difficult subject to broach from a 'feelings' standpoint, but just know that no one is trying to shame you - we are trying to shame them. Their behavior has OBVIOUS benefits (being able to get great talent for not great talent - habitually) so there NEEDS to be negative consequences if we ever want them to stop. Lacking any significant power to stem the tide of their actions, the only means to enact those negative consequences is to call them out loudly and frequently for what they do.

I can't imagine that you like for this to continually happen to you, so here are my two pieces of advice.

1) Be skeptical of trade offers as a default. You long ago were marked as a soft target for these types of individuals to take advantage of. As such, you probably haven't gotten a fair trade offer in real life years. After all, once everyone knows that you'll take deals like the one Omaha offered you, why would they ever do anything else? It sucks, but it's human nature to be terrible to one another. As such, you might not even know what a fair trade offer is. One tactic I've seen often amongst the sharks is to offer you a pile of shit up front as a means to convince you that the piss stained underwear is a meaningful "give and take" from their side. It's a form of gaslighting, and the fact that it's probably been happening to you for real life years now must have you in a pretty off kilter head space in this regard. The only one that can stop the abuse is you, though. A wholesale trade moratorium for awhile might not be the worst idea, to be honest - take the time to observe other trades (and the reactions to them) as a means to 'reset your baseline'.

2) I *strongly* recommend that you start reaching out to other GMs for second opinions on trades. You probably don't like me very much because of posts exactly like this one, but I'd be glad to offer you a second opinion. I can confidently say that Ted is one of the few truly honest brokers in trade negotiations and is very knowledgeable, so I would consider him a tremendous resource. You have good rapports with other GMs as well that you can reach out to. Regardless of whom you choose, though, please be EVEN MORE aware of #1 in these settings. If someone knows they've taken a foot hold in your confidence it's even easier for them to take advantage of you. And I'd *highly* recommend you err on the side of caution by getting multiple opinions, too. I imagine you could learn quite a bit about the overall intentions of the people giving you advice if you benchmark it against a larger data set.
League Director: Kyle “agrudez” Stever*
*Also serves as chief muckraker
-Ron, 2025 media guide

Image

User avatar
niles08
BBA GM
Posts: 2507
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:15 pm
Has thanked: 168 times
Been thanked: 424 times

Re: Des Moines/Omaha

Post by niles08 » Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:52 pm

agrudez wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:08 pm
Edward Murphy wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:29 pm
From all the comments looks like another bonehead trade again. In the past GMs felt I kept Moreland and Arreola to long and should have traded then earlier. Now I’m looking for more prospects to feed the ML and feel FA bats are easy to find, but FA pitching is costly. Maybe it is my fault not reaching out for advice more offend. Dam if I do Dam if I don’t
Ed, there are a lot of GMs that aren't honest brokers in trade dealings in this league. Honestly, some days it feels like there are less that are on the up and up than those whom aren't. Those whom are vocal on the subject bring it up often in the hopes that it will sink into the MBBA Id to enact positive change. That has not worked, obviously. Further, these GMs have some habitual victims that they continually go back to the well to and, to be perfectly blunt, you are one of them. I hate that these public displays of outrage might make you feel bad. It's a difficult subject to broach from a 'feelings' standpoint, but just know that no one is trying to shame you - we are trying to shame them. Their behavior has OBVIOUS benefits (being able to get great talent for not great talent - habitually) so there NEEDS to be negative consequences if we ever want them to stop. Lacking any significant power to stem the tide of their actions, the only means to enact those negative consequences is to call them out loudly and frequently for what they do.

I can't imagine that you like for this to continually happen to you, so here are my two pieces of advice.

1) Be skeptical of trade offers as a default. You long ago were marked as a soft target for these types of individuals to take advantage of. As such, you probably haven't gotten a fair trade offer in real life years. After all, once everyone knows that you'll take deals like the one Omaha offered you, why would they ever do anything else? It sucks, but it's human nature to be terrible to one another. As such, you might not even know what a fair trade offer is. One tactic I've seen often amongst the sharks is to offer you a pile of shit up front as a means to convince you that the piss stained underwear is a meaningful "give and take" from their side. It's a form of gaslighting, and the fact that it's probably been happening to you for real life years now must have you in a pretty off kilter head space in this regard. The only one that can stop the abuse is you, though. A wholesale trade moratorium for awhile might not be the worst idea, to be honest - take the time to observe other trades (and the reactions to them) as a means to 'reset your baseline'.

2) I *strongly* recommend that you start reaching out to other GMs for second opinions on trades. You probably don't like me very much because of posts exactly like this one, but I'd be glad to offer you a second opinion. I can confidently say that Ted is one of the few truly honest brokers in trade negotiations and is very knowledgeable, so I would consider him a tremendous resource. You have good rapports with other GMs as well that you can reach out to. Regardless of whom you choose, though, please be EVEN MORE aware of #1 in these settings. If someone knows they've taken a foot hold in your confidence it's even easier for them to take advantage of you. And I'd *highly* recommend you err on the side of caution by getting multiple opinions, too. I imagine you could learn quite a bit about the overall intentions of the people giving you advice if you benchmark it against a larger data set.
Once again...this was NOT an offer I made, but rather was made to me so to think I reached out to Ed to screw him is ridiculous on a number of reasons. I take offense to being thrown publicly under the bus when I wasnt even the one to offer the trade!
Image

User avatar
Edward Murphy
Ex-GM
Posts: 2041
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:10 am
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 26 times

Re: Des Moines/Omaha

Post by Edward Murphy » Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:56 pm

Kyle thanks for the advice i will take it to heart. Also it take two to make a trade I'm as much at fault.
Edward Murphy

Image

Playing with a Purpose
awm53222@yahoo.com

User avatar
niles08
BBA GM
Posts: 2507
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:15 pm
Has thanked: 168 times
Been thanked: 424 times

Re: Des Moines/Omaha

Post by niles08 » Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:01 pm

Edward Murphy wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:56 pm
Kyle thanks for the advice i will take it to heart. Also it take two to make a trade I'm as much at fault.
Ed, I still dont think this is a bad trade based on your current need for prospects and time window. If I truly thought I was fucking someone I wouldn't propose or listen to a proposal because that's not who I am.

It's been brought up but the league also had a breakdown over the Wulms trade that essentially ended up screwing you over when you had to rework it and eliminate him from being traded. Had you left the trade in it's original form you'd be better off today than you currently are.
Image

User avatar
RonCo
GB: JL Frontier Division Director
Posts: 19815
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:48 pm
Has thanked: 1982 times
Been thanked: 2902 times

Re: Des Moines/Omaha

Post by RonCo » Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:06 pm

He won the deal, either way. But, yes, he'd have Frazier in his clubhouse if the process hadn't been partially-reversed.
GM: Bikini Krill
Nothing Matters But the Pacific Pennant
Roster

agrudez
Ex-GM
Posts: 7681
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:30 am
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 47 times

Re: Des Moines/Omaha

Post by agrudez » Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:30 pm

agrudez wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:08 pm
It's a form of gaslighting, and the fact that it's probably been happening to you for real life years now must have you in a pretty off kilter head space in this regard.

...

If someone knows they've taken a foot hold in your confidence it's even easier for them to take advantage of you.

...

I imagine you could learn quite a bit about the overall intentions of the people giving you advice if you benchmark it against a larger data set.
League Director: Kyle “agrudez” Stever*
*Also serves as chief muckraker
-Ron, 2025 media guide

Image

User avatar
JimBob2232
BBA GM
Posts: 3657
Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 12:54 pm
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 222 times

Re: Des Moines/Omaha

Post by JimBob2232 » Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:46 pm

I won’t way in on this much, except to say that I would have given up more for Hale. When I decide to move someone, I shop them pretty hard. I’m sure you have all received some messages from me on players right before they are moved. That’s often me looking for the best deal I can get. If anyone ever wants to check with me to see if I can beat an offer...hit me up before pulling the trigger!

User avatar
ae37jr
BBA GM
Posts: 2980
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2016 1:37 pm
Location: Davenport, FL
Has thanked: 40 times
Been thanked: 645 times

Re: Des Moines/Omaha

Post by ae37jr » Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:54 pm

I've learned to not care what others think of my trades and it has made the league more enjoyable. Sometimes I make good ones, sometimes they are terrible. The one tip I have is to avoid the sharks. There are a couple of teams I refuse to make significant deals with just because of of their win at all costs nature.
Alan Ehlers
GM of the Twin Cities River Monster
Image

User avatar
recte44
GB: Commissioner
Posts: 43002
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 12:14 pm
Location: Oconomowoc, WI
Has thanked: 141 times
Been thanked: 1608 times
Contact:

Re: Des Moines/Omaha

Post by recte44 » Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:35 pm

:plus1:

Locked Previous topicNext topic

Return to “Completed Trades”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests