Manama bad extension

[bschr682]

I’m begging for mercy here. The wunderkid Koka was signed to an extension by the previous management while he still has free min sal years. Can you void that please? Although I’ll understand if you don’t want to.

[Fat Nige]

Shit, I’d wish I’d known you could get your finances sorted by begging Recte lol. I might have had an easier time with Wichita

[bschr682]

Shit, I’d wish I’d known you could get your finances sorted by begging Recte lol. I might have had an easier time with Wichita

1. He hasn’t said he’ll do anything yet. If he doesn’t want to so be it.
2. This is different. Previous GM seems not to understand the arby system on a fundamental level. I doubt Stu left you guys with contracts who were still eligible for league minimum

[RonCo]

Previous management could well have decided they had the money next year and wanted to lock in Koka's first arby year. I have singed that kind of deal with players in year one or two of their minsal contacts before.

[bschr682]

Previous management could well have decided they had the money next year and wanted to lock in Koka's first arby year. I have singed that kind of deal with players in year one or two of their minsal contacts before.

While possible I believe if that were true previous management would have said so already. So based on the silence and the reaction he gave on slack, I’m going to assume he wasn’t being that clever. That and Kokas crummy loyalty makes that quite the gamble.

Again if you want to just leave it be so as to not set a precedent I get it. Just bringing it up.

Also maybe one of the GB peeps wants to actually make sure he knows how arby generally works? If this is a mistake on his part we don’t need a repeat of it.

[recte44]

I'm not going to change a signed extension that was not illegal. It doesn't work that way.

[usnspecialist]

I'm not going to change a signed extension that was not illegal. It doesn't work that way.

i agree with this, that being said someone should have caught this before now, which is on us as a GB to pay better attention.

[RonCo]

Since I take this exact kind of action, it wouldn't cross my mind to think any GM who signed this contract didn't know how things work. This was, to my mind, a perfectly reasonable contract to sign. I'm sorry if that boggles anyone's mind.

If it turns out a GM actually made a mistake because they didn't know something, they'll learn it on the job. That's cool. This is supposed to be fun, and (as Aaron said in his fantastic tribute to Ed) the chips are all free.

It's not anyone''s job to tell other GMs how to run their teams.

[ca13]

It's not anyone''s job to tell other GMs how to run their teams.

Is this really true in the case of the UMEBA?

So, as someone in the UMEBA, who felt that it was advertised as somewhat of a "development" league, I say a little oversight in this case might be warranted. Or future cases like this. If a contract is signed that doesn't make sense to a bunch of people, maybe someone should have asked, "Hey, is this what you meant?" I can tell you though, the other UMEBA GMs aren't going to notice or ask. A bunch of us have very little OOTP experience.

If it turns out a GM actually made a mistake because they didn't know something, they'll learn it on the job. That's cool.

This is what just happened. A GM made a move that sure as heck looks like a mistake. Another GM got a handed the team, and said "What the F$#% is this S$%!" Is that the best way to handle this? Have someone publicly point out the mistakes of others?

And if you say, "No, that's not what we want." Then how is the learning supposed to happen? When the GM makes the same mistake in the higher stakes BBA? And gets called out there having not learned in a low stakes development league?

If this is truly to be a development league, oversight is needed. There's another hurdle to the UMEBA, and that's GM turnover and promotion. To learn, you have to live with the consequences of your mistakes. That really doesn't happen in the UMEBA. No one stays here long enough. So oversight. Coaching. That's really the only way for this to be a development league. Otherwise it's just a holding ground for BBA GMs, which is also fine, but then it should be advertised as much, and probably doesn't need so many teams.

[ca13]

Just piggybacking on this, some wonky things have happened in the UMEBA that are a bit frustrating to some of us, and as relative newbies, we don't really feel comfortable calling them out. There's a team that may essentially be tanking right now, or at the very least is being mismanaged in a way that is detrimental to competitive balance, and other than us just publicly shaming the GM doing it, who may not even be paying attention, we have little recourse. And if something is being done about it, we have no clue, as no one has told us anything. So again, oversight of some form.

[RonCo]

There's oversight and there's oversight, and the UMEBA is many things--including a robust league of its own.

You can also learn in many ways. One of them is making a mistake and discovering it by going forward. We are a very active board, so there are always people ask questions of, too, or educational posts to read. Blah, blah, blah. On the other hand, there are also many ways of helping someone learn, and I would suggest that, in general, making public displays of dissatisfaction with certain decisions a GM has made is less effective than other ways. YHour mileage can vary, I suppose.

I don't think anyone has ever accused the baseline BBA as a whole of being unwilling or unable to help people learn.

That said, it is also no one's job to tell other GMs how they should run their teams. There is a line there.

[ca13]

There's oversight and there's oversight, and the UMEBA is many things--including a robust league of its own.

You can also learn in many ways. One of them is making a mistake and discovering it by going forward. We are a very active board, so there are always people ask questions of, too, or educational posts to read. Blah, blah, blah. On the other hand, there are also many ways of helping someone learn, and I would suggest that, in general, making public displays of dissatisfaction with certain decisions a GM has made is less effective than other ways. YHour mileage can vary, I suppose.

I don't think anyone has ever accused the baseline BBA as a whole of being unwilling or unable to help people learn.

That said, it is also no one's job to tell other GMs how they should run their teams. There is a line there.

Okay, I mean. Define "robust". It's like crickets over here half the time. People post in the trade block and don't get responses for weeks. But feel free to tell me how the league I am in is. You know, the one you have never been in. The one where we just got our roster limits changed without a heads up. The one where we've lost half our GMs in the last calendar month. The one where we have a team tanking, and multiple other teams not filling out their minors and no one is doing anything about it.


I think a characterization of my post that I think people should be told how to run their teams is frankly absurd and intellectually dishonest. I clearly made a point that guidance and suggestion may be in order in a development league. But feel free to misrepresent my words. Also feel free to ignore the point I made that people DON'T and CAN'T discover their mistakes moving forward if they are leaving the UMEBA to go to the BBA. Unless they make the same mistake there, so what was the point of the UMEBA time?

And yes, you can learn in many ways. One of them is having someone catch things that look like blatant, potentially franchise wrecking mistakes, and ask a newbie if that's what was intended.

I also feel that public displays of dissatisfaction with a previous GM's decisions are unavoidable. I have seen perhaps 20 or so since I joined the this league, and countless others in other online gaming situations in life, and to suggest that they will not happen is downright silly.

Furthermore, for other ways of leaning to happen, there actually have to be other ways. Which is my whole point. What, exactly, is the other way that the Koka extension (assuming it is a mistake) was to be found out to be a mistake by the GM who made it? In the specific circumstance of the UMEBA, with it's high rate of GM turnover and relative noobness.

Is it perhaps, and experienced person paying attention to these things, and making gentle inquires and suggestions. You know, like a mentor, or teacher? You know, the people they have in places where development or learning happens.

Or is that "telling people how to run their team."

[RonCo]

I didn't mean to imply your post was saying you think people should be told how to run their team. I apologize for any such appearance. I suggest that what Brett has been doing, however, has crossed that line. Again, your mileage may vary.

Regarding UMEBA as "robust" ... well ... it has been quite robust in the recent past.

I also at least acknowledge that--as league director--I can do better at surveying the league for overall health. All I can say right now is that I'll try to do better. You can certainly feel free to reach out to me via PM (or anyone else on the board) to note issues you see.

[bschr682]

I'm not going to change a signed extension that was not illegal. It doesn't work that way.

Perfectly fine. Going one step further based on the above conversation is the UMEBA no longer a development league? When did that change? Just curious.

[ca13]

I didn't mean to imply your post was saying you think people should be told how to run their team. I apologize for any such appearance. I suggest that what Brett has been doing, however, has crossed that line. Again, your mileage may vary.

Regarding UMEBA as "robust" ... well ... it has been quite robust in the recent past.

I also at least acknowledge that--as league director--I can do better at surveying the league for overall health. All I can say right now is that I'll try to do better. You can certainly feel free to reach out to me via PM (or anyone else on the board) to note issues you see.

I've been a bit frustrated recently with some things, both here and otherwise, so there may have be more vitriol there then necessary, so I apologize.

But I mean, I didn't even know you were the league director. Maybe that's a fault on my part, and I'm not trying to judge you harshly. Also, I get that life is busy and this is supposed to be a fun game, that some of us have varying amounts of time to commit to. Anyway, sorry. I'm sure you and the other GB members care about making this work and be fun. Just let annoyance get the better of me. Apologies.

[Dington]

I also wasn't aware Ron was league director. Is that different than league ambassador, the tile held by @jleddy ?

[RonCo]

Perfectly fine. Going one step further based on the above conversation is the UMEBA no longer a development league? When did that change? Just curious.

My view: The UMEBA is a development league in the sense that it helps OOTP GMs get familiar with the BBA environment--which has had some unique rules.

Otherwise, it's as developmental as any other league.

[RonCo]

I also wasn't aware Ron was league director. Is that different than league ambassador, the tile held by @jleddy ?

That's my highfaluting title.

Technically I suppose I'm to be more focused on the BBA and Joe on the UMEBA. But I also suppose I'm as responsible as any of us for paying attention to everything.

[bschr682]

I also wasn't aware Ron was league director. Is that different than league ambassador, the tile held by @jleddy ?

Holy electric blue signature Batman. That is snazzy.

[RonCo]

But I mean, I didn't even know you were the league director. Maybe that's a fault on my part, and I'm not trying to judge you harshly. Also, I get that life is busy and this is supposed to be a fun game, that some of us have varying amounts of time to commit to. Anyway, sorry. I'm sure you and the other GB members care about making this work and be fun. Just let annoyance get the better of me. Apologies.

No problem. I'm listed in the constitution, though. And it's in my avatar.

My title makes no nevermind, though. You can reach out to any board member with issues or concerns.