Who won the gillstrom trade

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Who won

Havana
2
8%
Montreal
14
56%
Both
9
36%
Neither
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 25

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Who won the gillstrom trade

Post by usnspecialist » Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:58 am

Since the trade thread will be locked soon and I'm sure there are thoughts and discussion to be had on this, figured I would take it here.
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Re: Who won the gillstrom trade

Post by usnspecialist » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:00 am

i personally voted both. John definitely extracted his pound of flesh from me and i am now really worried about my pitching depth, but i had martinez ready to slide in for gonzalez and chavez i think will be an upgrade on gowron (at least for the style i want to play). The major factor in me giving up what i did was that gillstrom is locked into a very light contract given his caliber of play, so even if he comes down to earth im still getting a great price on him.
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Re: Who won the gillstrom trade

Post by bschr682 » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:43 am

Montreal wins this by a landslide.
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Re: Who won the gillstrom trade

Post by ae37jr » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:11 am

I had to have a long talk with myself(several times in fact) to stay out on Gillstrom. Yes, he is an amazing talent and instantly makes Havana better in 2033 and possibly beyond. But I figured at least half the league would be in on him and he would cost the farm. The next question became... how long would Gillstrom still be Gillstrom. Is he worth that kind of haul? His defense has already slipped and he has taken some lumps to his offense. While still a great player, he probably isn't the hands down best player in the league anymore. Once he is a liability at SS, he is just a top 5 or 10 hitter.

Havana is in a similar situation to Brooklyn right now too. Even after landing Gillstrom, where does that put them? I still wouldn't put them(or Brooklyn if I had somehow made the trade) in the Landis picture. I feel like he'd be better suited going to a team like Vegas, Louisville, Yellow Springs, Jacksonville, or Charm City. Then it would have been like... "wow, who is going to beat this team?".

As far as who wins the trade. Right now I'd say Montreal. They are like the real life Marlins. A great offense with little to no pitching that was never going to win. Kudos to John for trading guys while they are at the top of their game. On a trade like this, the way Havana can sway this trade is if they go all in and win a Landis or two with Gillstrom. I wouldn't put it past trader Randy. Havana went from the joke of the league to playoff contender in short order. Maybe he can fill in the gaps and make them a Landis contender before Gillstrom fades into a mere mortal.
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Re: Who won the gillstrom trade

Post by bcslouck » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:16 am

ae37jr wrote:I feel like he'd be better suited going to a team like Vegas, Louisville, Yellow Springs, Jacksonville, or Charm City. Then it would have been like... "wow, who is going to beat this team?".
I can tell you CCJ had an offer. I won't get into it much, but based on the brief talks, I felt pretty confident a deal was going to be made. Congrats to Havana on getting him. But right now, it looks like Montreal won the trade.
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Re: Who won the gillstrom trade

Post by usnspecialist » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:19 am

for what it is worth (at least at this point), Gillstrom is going to play 3B for me and Wareham is going to stay at SS. Not sure if that will factor into the analysis at all. I basically had cracked my window open for the next few years with all the moves leading up to this, and with this move i rammed it full power. I have a very young team (gillstrom is easily my oldest field player and only Nunez is older in the rotation), and i should be competitive for the next few years. Also if i need to fill some holes, i think i have proven i will find some way to get it done.
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Re: Who won the gillstrom trade

Post by usnspecialist » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:21 am

bcslouck wrote:
ae37jr wrote:I feel like he'd be better suited going to a team like Vegas, Louisville, Yellow Springs, Jacksonville, or Charm City. Then it would have been like... "wow, who is going to beat this team?".
I can tell you CCJ had an offer. I won't get into it much, but based on the brief talks, I felt pretty confident a deal was going to be made. Congrats to Havana on getting him. But right now, it looks like Montreal won the trade.
i was wondering who the other finalist was (i had been told it was me and 1 other team and i was behind on my initial offer). The piece that got me over the top was adding kondo, we negotiated for a bit beyond that but it was basically just window dressing at that point. Once i added Kondo i knew he was mine.
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Re: Who won the gillstrom trade

Post by bcslouck » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:23 am

usnspecialist wrote:for what it is worth (at least at this point), Gillstrom is going to play 3B for me and Wareham is going to stay at SS. Not sure if that will factor into the analysis at all. I basically had cracked my window open for the next few years with all the moves leading up to this, and with this move i rammed it full power. I have a very young team (gillstrom is easily my oldest field player and only Nunez is older in the rotation), and i should be competitive for the next few years. Also if i need to fill some holes, i think i have proven i will find some way to get it done.
I was going to move him to 3B as well. He was going to bat 2nd in front of Savage.
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Re: Who won the gillstrom trade

Post by bcslouck » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:25 am

And I get his bat is much more valuable at SS than 3B, but the bat is legit anywhere and, for me anyway, would of been a big defensive upgrade there.

If you think he puts you in the conversation with the big boys, you make a move. So kudos for that.
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Re: Who won the gillstrom trade

Post by usnspecialist » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:30 am

bcslouck wrote:And I get his bat is much more valuable at SS than 3B, but the bat is legit anywhere and, for me anyway, would of been a big defensive upgrade there.

If you think he puts you in the conversation with the big boys, you make a move. So kudos for that.
vegas is always going to be tough, and if you look at PYT record right now i am 2nd in the JL so you can make the argument that i was already there (or at least knocking on the door). I think a few of those teams in the JLA are going to fall off in the next few years (particularly ATC) and the JLS is wide open after vegas.
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Re: Who won the gillstrom trade

Post by usnspecialist » Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:51 am

i will say this, john is no derek jeter. The man knows what his guys are worth.
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Re: Who won the gillstrom trade

Post by Rubaboo » Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:04 pm

Voting Montreal on this just because I think Havana would've been better served trying to upgrade pitching. Your offense is championship grade for sure but I think your pitching will let you down in the end. Too many 6 movement guys to take on the Vegases, Jacksonvilles, Charm Cities, or Yellow Springses of the world.
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Re: Who won the gillstrom trade

Post by usnspecialist » Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:06 pm

Rubaboo wrote:Voting Montreal on this just because I think Havana would've been better served trying to upgrade pitching. Your offense is championship grade for sure but I think your pitching will let you down in the end. Too many 6 movement guys to take on the Vegases, Jacksonvilles, Charm Cities, or Yellow Springses of the world.
that was a consideration for me, and i might not be done dealing because i know that is an issue to address.
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Re: Who won the gillstrom trade

Post by Ted » Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:29 pm

I think Montreal takes this on the talent side in a land slide. They in all likelihood got four above average to very good players, including a starting pitcher and a shortstop for one (admittedly all time great talent) in Gillstrom. John just made the mode to keep his machine going for the next decade. I can also see why Havana makes this move. If you are a team that looks at things in terms of windows, this is the kind of move you make. For selfish reasons, I hate these trades. This is the classic overpay of later for now that is the standard for elite talents on the market, and the reason I never will get the elite talent on the market, because I'll never beat up my future like this for the present. Doesn't mean it's a bad deal, though. I do wonder about moving Pena AND Kondo when you are a team that could use some pitching help. Kondo could have helped as early as next year, and Pena looks solid.
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Re: Who won the gillstrom trade

Post by usnspecialist » Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:35 pm

Ted wrote:I think Montreal takes this on the talent side in a land slide. They in all likelihood got four above average to very good players, including a starting pitcher and a shortstop for one (admittedly all time great talent) in Gillstrom. John just made the mode to keep his machine going for the next decade. I can also see why Havana makes this move. If you are a team that looks at things in terms of windows, this is the kind of move you make. For selfish reasons, I hate these trades. This is the classic overpay of later for now that is the standard for elite talents on the market, and the reason I never will get the elite talent on the market, because I'll never beat up my future like this for the present. Doesn't mean it's a bad deal, though. I do wonder about moving Pena AND Kondo when you are a team that could use some pitching help. Kondo could have helped as early as next year, and Pena looks solid.
ask john, i tried every trick in the book to keep kondo out of this deal, but it wasnt going to happen. I think he is going to be a #1 starter within 3 years. I still have a very good top 3 in my rotation with nice variance in ages (31, 25, 20) and if i can get a few back of the rotation guys i can be ok. I do have minimal pitching depth at this point, and virtually none coming through the minors which is a concern i admit.
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Re: Who won the gillstrom trade

Post by felipe » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:44 pm

Interesting news out of the lesser league

Louisville didn’t bother making an offer for Gillstrom as we really don’t have a spot for him

We are just waaaay too stacked

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Re: Who won the gillstrom trade

Post by udlb58 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:50 pm

A week late, but....

Normally you take the team getting the 28 year old superstar, but Montreal picked up 3 completely developed starting players (SP/SS/RF) and two nearly developed starting caliber players (SP/LF). If they wind up with 4-5 starters for the next 4-6 years, it is hard to call them a loser....

Havana picks up a player that instantly improves the offense. But if he's limited to 3B, he's not only no longer the hands-down top player in the league, he's not even the top player at his position (despite the drop in defense, I'd certainly take Winson or Noboru over him). To me, he's more valuable at 2nd (though he hasn't had enough time there and will be poor early on). When he's healthy, playing him at 2nd lets you play Cunningham (who hasn't been bad defensively and is a far superior hitter to Martinez), and he's the best player at his position. Still, he's a top 3 3B and a top 5-ish hitter in the league and he's only 28.

In the end, slight win for Montreal right now; push if Gillstrom holds his value; huge win for Montreal if the other two fully develop into long-term starters.
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Re: Who won the gillstrom trade

Post by usnspecialist » Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:54 pm

I actually thought about putting him at 2B, but I wanted to see what Martinez is capable of. Of course gillstrom getting hurt for an indefinite period of time didn't help...
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Re: Who won the gillstrom trade

Post by JohnC » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:46 pm

Not sure how I missed this thread but Randy was very persistent in our talks. Brandon's initial offer was indeed better but in the end when Kondo was added, I pulled the trigger.

I hate doing deals like this because I would have preferred Gillstrom be a lifetime Blazer, but our system was weak and this gave us a chance to stay competitive.
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Re: Who won the gillstrom trade

Post by Ted » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:52 pm

JohnC wrote:Not sure how I missed this thread but Randy was very persistent in our talks. Brandon's initial offer was indeed better but in the end when Kondo was added, I pulled the trigger.

I hate doing deals like this because I would have preferred Gillstrom be a lifetime Blazer, but our system was weak and this gave us a chance to stay competitive.
If you truly hate making these deals, then I am even more impressed by you. I essentially could never have made this type of move, because I hate giving up the dream of the single team hall of famer. It's absolutely the right deal to make for a franchise. Just as you did with Sandcastle, I'm sure we'll be looking at your team in five seasons and pointing to this trade as the one that kept you on top.
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