2058 - Cano Jr to Des Moines

[indiansfan]

I didn't make an offer, was thinking about it, but I didn't have a young bat to offer. I could have offered better pitching. Cano's ratings drop did concern me, but I probably would have put in an offer anyway, just hadn't gotten to it yet. Figured Brett would hold out for a while.

[GoldenOne]

I didn't make an offer, was thinking about it, but I didn't have a young bat to offer. I could have offered better pitching. Cano's ratings drop did concern me, but I probably would have put in an offer anyway, just hadn't gotten to it yet. Figured Brett would hold out for a while.

From the time he was first posted until the trade, I did hold out some. Ask Randy - he was getting anxious. Seeing as how it affects how I approach FA, didnt want to wait too long. You should have at least said something.

[bschr682]

I think your come hard or don’t come at all kept people away. I do get it though. Lowball offers are not fun to sift through.

[recte44]

I’m here to tell anyone listening that defense is everything in OOTP

[usnspecialist]

First off - prospects dont win you games. Younger, good players now are what win games and win them for just as long as prospects. Also - its been years since people have been willing to trade worthy prospects?

Cano's numbers against the top teams in the Frontier are not good. Hard to win the division when your best player cant perform against your main competitors. Omeragic still has some room to grow into his potential - taking a chance, an expensive one but not a death-knell, but if he figures it out in the BBA then well worth it. We've got a logjam at 1B right now but yes, bin Mazan will eventually end up there. Knapp will be okay - a 5 movement isnt as bad as it was just a couple of seasons ago. Des Moines saved money on contracts for 2053 but the trade will be a little closer in value in the seasons after that.

Fair enough analysis but still think its wrong. (Well, hoping.)

The prospect critique is maybe unfair, I'll own that. It's been very tough to get people to part with the few high end ones that are out there. I actually like Knapp or, more accurately, what he could be. The 5 movement could be worse for sure, but 10 stuff isn't what it used to be either and coupled with the 5 movement could be trouble if he doesn't increase his potentials further (which I think he will). Omeragic is the most concerning part of the deal for me. I don't think you're wrong to think you can fix him but, from an outsiders perspective, don't see a great path to doing so. Bin Mazin is a solid player and I think he'll be that for quite some time.

I very well could be wrong. This is a crystal ball business and we don't all see it the same way. Right this second I think that Des Moines has the better of this swap. I think it could very well shift in El Paso's favor in very short order if the alarm bells I have ringing when I look at Cano come to fruition.

Those alarm bells are a bit louder now i imagine...

[joshd19]

Update: I think it's clear DM lost this trade

[Dington]

Update: I think it's clear DM lost this trade

Why do you say that? Cano helped Des Moines win a lot of games and has played really well.

[RonCo]

By raw WAR, bin Mazin is about +10 over the span.

[RonCo]

Obviously there are mix and match questions on the other guys around them -- but, as a general rule, if someone wants to make a deal with me that sends 1.6+ WAR per year for 6 years my way, I'll strongly consider it.

[joshd19]

Update: I think it's clear DM lost this trade

Why do you say that? Cano helped Des Moines win a lot of games and has played really well.

It may have made sense for us at the time, but hard to get over the difference in production.

[Dington]

IIRC, RMO is hitter friendly. Who would have been the Kernel’s CF had they not had Cano? Big hole to fill.

[BaseClogger]

By raw WAR, bin Mazin is about +10 over the span.

My mental math has it closer to 7 WAR. over six years it’s about 1 WAR per year. I’d take that drop to switch out a corner infielder for a center fielder seven days a week.

[joshd19]

Need to look at our inconsistent production at 1B as well. Could've gone with a glove-only CF and slid bin Mazin to 1B, where he would have been a Great Glover.

[Dington]

Need to look at our inconsistent production at 1B as well. Could've gone with a glove-only CF and slid bin Mazin to 1B, where he would have been a Great Glover.

Souza was slotted to be a productive 1B, but didn't quite work out. I think Makin was playing 1B, too, when DM had Haney.

[RonCo]

Like I said. Lot's depends on the mix and match. But if someone tells me before the deal, "hey, you're going to lose a WAR per year until 2058 and Cano's going to end that 2058 with a 1.9 WAR year while bin Mazin is still pounding the crap out of his numbers ... well ... I'd be looking to Keep bin Mazin around and find another option at CF.

Either way, it's not a slam dunk. But it seems clear (at least) that DM did not "win" the deal in the straight up analysis, as I think the argument was being made at the time.