2058 - Cano Jr to Des Moines

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2058 - Cano Jr to Des Moines

Post by Rubaboo » Fri Nov 11, 2022 12:15 pm

The offseason is just starting. Option resolution and arbitration are still ahead but we already have our first major transaction as Brett in El Paso and Randy in Des Moines come together to consummate a deal involving superstar CF Hector Cano, Jr. The deal as posted:
GoldenOne wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 10:28 am
El Paso Receives:
-- SP Slobodan Omeragic (Randy is also posting a PPT reward for Omeragic)
-- 3B Malik bin Mazin
-- P Mal Knapp (S A)


Des Moines Receives:
-- OF Hector 'Junior' Cano, Jr.
TL:DR
Des Moines:
Cano is a superstar but I have some concerns about his future based on recent lumping and leaving comfy, offense-friendly confines.

El Paso:
Bin Mazin is a good player and could be a very good one. Future is probably at 1B though, which hurts his value.
Omeragic is overpaid for his production but a change of scenery could do him some good.
Knapp is a bumper, which is good, but hopes for his future require continued bumping, which is less good.


Ok, so I have several gut feelings about this one right away before I start unpacking:
1) Was Kevin in Calgary asleep at the switch here? This is your boy, Kevin!
2) I'm surprised that this was a roster player heavy return. The Frontier is loaded with talent, El Paso (or whatever they'll become in 2053) is likely behind at least Mexico City, Las Vegas, Phoenix, and Calgary talent-wise. I wouldn't have been surprised to see a prospect heavy return here with a reset in mind for a GM that's new to the franchise.

My personal feelings aside, there's more to unpack here than it seems at first glance. Let's start with the obvious side of this and talk about Cano in Des Moines.

Hector Cano Jr is a superstar level CF in the BBA. Full stop. In his first four full seasons in the BBA he's put up WAR numbers of 7.3, 7.9, 9.3, and 7.6. He's brought more life and energy to an El Paso franchise that has had a rocky start to its existence than any other player. If you rate trades based on who got the best player, it's probably pretty easy for you to look at this and think Des Moines won, and handily. It might even be hard to argue with that assessment based on the results of the players involved. There's alot to like about Cano, but for me his but is too big. He's a great player, plays a great CF, BUT...

BUT he plays in, perhaps, the most offense friendly park in the BBA. It's not close. El Paso is the band-boxiest band box in the league.
BUT he dumped 2 points of Contact and a point of Eye at the start of the season. Very concerning for a player who was 24 at the time.
BUT he's gonna get PAID in a couple of seasons. Hard to argue he hasn't earned it, but he'll very likely be signing an untradeable contract before the 2054 or 2055 season, which could be risky business for a player with a significant ratings loss in his past.

If we just look at Cano's buts for a while, it makes El Paso's reasoning for dealing him easier to understand.

But what to deal him for? I have no knowledge about what offers El Paso did or didn't get here. I don't have the same preferences as he does. I don't even know where this team will play next season or what the park factors will look like. I can only assess the trade based on what I see here.

Bin Mazin is, in my opinion, the main get here. He's the same age as Cano (25) and had a breakout year, posting 4.2 WAR this year for a Des Moines team that almost almost broke perhaps the most onerous BBA record in existence by making the playoffs. He's a good bat, not a great one in the curent scope of the league. His glove... is barely passable at 3B. He posted a -6 ZR at 3B and as such is probably a 1B long term, which hurts his appeal. He's locked in a $7.6M in what looks like an arbitration buyout deal, which could be a bargain if he levels up again, which he certainly could. El Paso will be hoping so. Bin Mazin's floor is probably as a solid, every day 1B. His ceiling is something like a 5-6 WAR, perennial all-star hopeful.

Slobodan Omeragic is one of a crop of GBC SPs who have migrated to the BBA ranks over the last few years. The learning curve has gotten to many of these guys and Omeragic is no exception as his numbers in his two seasons in Des Moines have certainly been disappointing based on the contract he was given. You'd expect better than 85 and 84 ERA+ numbers for $14M a season. I would expect that when El Paso moves they'll move to a more pitcher friendly setup which will help but unless he can find his strikeout touch or plays in front of a top 5 defense I have a feeling he's going to struggle in the BBA. Omeragic has potential but he needs help. He's got a mid-rotation ceiling, maybe higher if he can figure out how to get to 10 or 11 K/9. His floor is... frightening. I can see a situation where he doesn't figure it out and ends up either getting released or sent out in another deal just to balance the books. Very volatile.

Knapp is a prospect. I guess? He's a potential prospect. A prospect-prospect. Or something. There's alot to like about him. He's a newly 19 year old lefty with three very good pitches. He's a significant bumper already. His minor league numbers until a small sample in Short A as an 18 year old
this season have been excellent. Grading prospects always makes fools out of us, but it's hard not to see the potential in Knapp. The injury bug has been relentless in the minor leagues of late, if Knapp can avoid it, and keep developing, the sky is the limit for him. If he is what he is, the jury is out. Depends on how you feel about 5 movement. As it stands right now, he needs a little help to be a noteworthy contributor at the BBA level.

The Verdict:
As a trade grader, I have to lean Des Moines on this one, especially in the short-term. They got the best player in the deal right now. They got out of Omeragic's deal, which is looking like a lemon at the moment. They get to have the optimism going into the season that only comes from adding a superstar caliber player. Des Moines gets better right now and I don't think El Paso does and they also didn't get a multi-prospect package, which is why I'm not as high on this deal for El Paso. Bin Mazin should be a solid player for a lot of years. Knapp is an interesting prospect that needs a little help. If he keeps bumping, he could be a top half rotation anchor. Omeragic is the downer for me. He's an expensive project and I think El Paso will need to find a role where he's effective he can maybe start to play to his ratings a bit. The let's-wait-and-see take feels like a total copout most of the time for me but I think, long term, the final grade on this deal hinges on what Cano does. There's a 2055 version of Cano that has put up 3 more seasons of 7-9 WAR, gold glove campaigns. There's also a 2055 version of Cano that has just signed a $20+ million per year deal and lumps again.
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Re: Cano Jr to Des Moines

Post by datom25 » Fri Nov 11, 2022 12:33 pm

I hope we continue to have blockbuster trades to get blockbuster analysis, like above!
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Re: Cano Jr to Des Moines

Post by Dington » Fri Nov 11, 2022 12:53 pm

Cano's contact lumps were an instant red flag for me. If it's a sign he's not aging well, he probably gets moved out of CF sooner, too.
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Re: Cano Jr to Des Moines

Post by GoldenOne » Fri Nov 11, 2022 1:00 pm

First off - prospects dont win you games. Younger, good players now are what win games and win them for just as long as prospects. Also - its been years since people have been willing to trade worthy prospects?

Cano's numbers against the top teams in the Frontier are not good. Hard to win the division when your best player cant perform against your main competitors. Omeragic still has some room to grow into his potential - taking a chance, an expensive one but not a death-knell, but if he figures it out in the BBA then well worth it. We've got a logjam at 1B right now but yes, bin Mazan will eventually end up there. Knapp will be okay - a 5 movement isnt as bad as it was just a couple of seasons ago. Des Moines saved money on contracts for 2053 but the trade will be a little closer in value in the seasons after that.

Fair enough analysis but still think its wrong. (Well, hoping.)
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Re: Cano Jr to Des Moines

Post by Rubaboo » Fri Nov 11, 2022 1:24 pm

GoldenOne wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 1:00 pm
First off - prospects dont win you games. Younger, good players now are what win games and win them for just as long as prospects. Also - its been years since people have been willing to trade worthy prospects?

Cano's numbers against the top teams in the Frontier are not good. Hard to win the division when your best player cant perform against your main competitors. Omeragic still has some room to grow into his potential - taking a chance, an expensive one but not a death-knell, but if he figures it out in the BBA then well worth it. We've got a logjam at 1B right now but yes, bin Mazan will eventually end up there. Knapp will be okay - a 5 movement isnt as bad as it was just a couple of seasons ago. Des Moines saved money on contracts for 2053 but the trade will be a little closer in value in the seasons after that.

Fair enough analysis but still think its wrong. (Well, hoping.)
The prospect critique is maybe unfair, I'll own that. It's been very tough to get people to part with the few high end ones that are out there. I actually like Knapp or, more accurately, what he could be. The 5 movement could be worse for sure, but 10 stuff isn't what it used to be either and coupled with the 5 movement could be trouble if he doesn't increase his potentials further (which I think he will). Omeragic is the most concerning part of the deal for me. I don't think you're wrong to think you can fix him but, from an outsiders perspective, don't see a great path to doing so. Bin Mazin is a solid player and I think he'll be that for quite some time.

I very well could be wrong. This is a crystal ball business and we don't all see it the same way. Right this second I think that Des Moines has the better of this swap. I think it could very well shift in El Paso's favor in very short order if the alarm bells I have ringing when I look at Cano come to fruition.
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Re: Cano Jr to Des Moines

Post by Trebro » Fri Nov 11, 2022 2:32 pm

I absolutely love this concept of looking at trades and hearing different views.
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Re: Cano Jr to Des Moines

Post by usnspecialist » Fri Nov 11, 2022 2:41 pm

I love the in depth look at this.
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Re: Cano Jr to Des Moines

Post by chicoruiz » Fri Nov 11, 2022 3:14 pm

Speaking with a certain amount of knowledge of the El Paso situation, I can see the logic behind it from their point. Santos is zipping through the minor leagues and is in a position to take over center field, possibly as soon as opening day. The other variable is Rob Chenoweth, who has an opt-out clause this year. If he leaves, bin Mazan can take over 1B; if he stays, bin Mazan moves to third and Trinidad becomes an excellent DH. Omeragic? Well, no pitcher is a guarantee, especially in El Paso, but he’s a groundballer who has some success on his resume.
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Re: Cano Jr to Des Moines

Post by JimBob2232 » Fri Nov 11, 2022 3:23 pm

nice. have a feeling des moines is getting to the playoffs soon

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Re: Cano Jr to Des Moines

Post by GoldenOne » Fri Nov 11, 2022 3:28 pm

chicoruiz wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 3:14 pm
Speaking with a certain amount of knowledge of the El Paso situation, I can see the logic behind it from their point. Santos is zipping through the minor leagues and is in a position to take over center field, possibly as soon as opening day. The other variable is Rob Chenoweth, who has an opt-out clause this year. If he leaves, bin Mazan can take over 1B; if he stays, bin Mazan moves to third and Trinidad becomes an excellent DH. Omeragic? Well, no pitcher is a guarantee, especially in El Paso, but he’s a groundballer who has some success on his resume.
Unfortunately, Chenoweth decided not to opt out. He still has a player option for 2053 he has to decide upon but seems fairly unlikely he would not opt out but then decline his player option. He's got another player option for 2054 too so we'll see how that goes. Santos will be starting in the OF come opening day. Cant guarantee its in CF but he'll be out there.
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Re: Cano Jr to Des Moines

Post by Jwalk100 » Fri Nov 11, 2022 4:10 pm

Just for shits and giggles, I ran this through an OOTP trade calculator.

The result:
Screen Shot 2022-11-11 at 3.05.56 PM.png
Screen Shot 2022-11-11 at 3.06.15 PM.png


Team on the left is Des Moines.


In my opinion, Fred nailed it.
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Re: Cano Jr to Des Moines

Post by Dington » Fri Nov 11, 2022 4:39 pm

Jwalk100 wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 4:10 pm
Just for shits and giggles, I ran this through an OOTP trade calculator.

The result:

Screen Shot 2022-11-11 at 3.05.56 PM.png


Screen Shot 2022-11-11 at 3.06.15 PM.png



Team on the left is Des Moines.


In my opinion, Fred nailed it.
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Re: Cano Jr to Des Moines

Post by usnspecialist » Fri Nov 11, 2022 4:44 pm

OOTP has a trade calculator?
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Re: Cano Jr to Des Moines

Post by Jwalk100 » Fri Nov 11, 2022 5:00 pm

usnspecialist wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 4:44 pm
OOTP has a trade calculator?
My OOTP calculator.
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Re: Cano Jr to Des Moines

Post by shoeless.db » Fri Nov 11, 2022 5:39 pm

Jwalk100 wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 5:00 pm
usnspecialist wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 4:44 pm
OOTP has a trade calculator?
My OOTP calculator.
Maybe you should be throwing calculators instead of clocks.
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Re: Cano Jr to Des Moines

Post by BaseClogger » Fri Nov 11, 2022 9:12 pm

bin Mazin's ZRs are indeed trending in the wrong direction, but I think his defensive deficiencies are being exaggerated in this thread. There's a small chance he can bounce back to being a passable defender based on his ratings, and even his poor 2052 is acceptable with an elite bat.
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Re: Cano Jr to Des Moines

Post by jiminyhopkins » Fri Nov 11, 2022 9:25 pm

Hello.... no one wants to trade prospects because there aren't very many.

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Re: Cano Jr to Des Moines

Post by ae37jr » Sat Nov 12, 2022 1:26 am

I've always felt there is a defensive divide in the league. Some Gm's over rate it while others under rate it/view it appropriately. The whole object is to score more runs than your opponent. That can come in a variety of ways. So there isn't really a wrong answer unless you are playing someone who can't hit or field.

IMO, there is nothing wrong with bin Mazen playing 7-8 innings at 3B if he is going to put up an .850-.900 ops. He can help you get a lead and then sub in a defensive caddy to protect it.
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Re: Cano Jr to Des Moines

Post by GoldenOne » Sat Nov 12, 2022 6:35 am

I probably overrate defense but for now, bin Mazin is fine at 3B. If we can get Chenoweth to move on, bin Mazin will learn 1B.
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Re: Cano Jr to Des Moines

Post by bschr682 » Sat Nov 12, 2022 9:52 am

His defense won’t cost you much over the course of 162. It has to be truly awful to do that. It’s in the playoffs when it will rear it’s ugly head and kill you. At SS and Cf especially of course but now 3b too since they’ve tweaked it for all the crazy shifts that happen now.

And yea it’s fine to move him to 1b but that’s a big minus to the value of the trade since 1b/DH types are everywhere.
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