Trades to be Reviewed Later

[Ted]

It's obvious from the Buffalo/Vegas Swanson/Rodruigez deal, some deals demand closer inspection at a later date. I figured we could start this thread to keep track. Any time I see a decent debate over a trade, or a player in the trade, I'll add it to this list. That way anyone can easily find it and review it at a later date. Please don't give me any points for this. It's essentially just a sticky.


Montreal/Madison
Montreal receives:
SP Mark Burns
CL Luis Tiant IV
P Julio Madrigal (prospect)

Madison receives:
OF Dusty Light Jr (prospect)
SS Derek McLaughlin (prospect)
SP Alberto Vargas (prospect)
IF Ben McLaughlin
The primary factor in this trade was how good people think Dusty Light will be.

Buffalo/Las Vegas
To LV:
SP Mike Swanson
SP Steve Hoffman
SS Fred Rodriguez

To BUF:
SP Ignacio Rodriguez
SP Dieter Hartinger
2B Ernie Stauffer
A SP Juan Hernandez
AA SP Anastacio Vazquez
AAA LF Edgar Ordonez
How good is Ignacio Rodriguez? A strikeout machine with untouchable stuff, or a number 3 who can't keep the ball in the park?
Secondary question is how much does Buffalo lose due to dealing Fred Rodriguez
Third, how much does LV get out of Swanson/Hoffman?


Vancouver/Buffalo
Vancouver receives:
SP Mick Hanscombe
SP Juan Hernandez(prospect)

Buffalo receives:
P Li Beggs

Hanscombe is a back of the rotation starter. Most years one will probably be happy with his 4-4.50 era performance, but he has the potential to turn in the occasional stinker of a year. He has a fairly unfortunate contract that owes him over 15 million for the two years after this one.
Hernandez is 20 years old and well on his way to becoming a solid #3 starter He has #2 stuff, but his bad split against lefties and propensity to give up the long ball limit him.



Li Beggs is an interesting player. He's been primarily used a a reliever throughout his career, but has had success as a starter. He is the epitome of a lefty junkballer. If he can settle in as a 3-4 type starter, he'll be a dirt cheap option there. Even as a reliever, at 26 he can give Buffalo several good years of performance.

When I first saw this trade, I thought Buffalo had made a pretty bad deal. They are not currently a contender, and paid a prospect to get a reliever and get out of a potentially bad deal on Hanscombe (that they signed). That changes if Beggs can start. It's still an odd move, unless they have something up their sleeve to put them in contention in the next year or so (before Hernandez would have been ready. Vancouver on the other hand takes on a bad deal and flips an older player to get a solid prospect.

Grades
Vancouver
Talent: B
Organizational: A-
Buffalo
Talent: C+
Organizational: C+

Is Beggs a legit starter? Is Hernandez a bust?


To HAV:
CF Benjamin Franklin Pierce
3B Hunter Eisenhower
P Alfredo Chavez
1B Miguel Gonzalez

To LV:
C Hank Brewer
1B Jack Gulliver
IF/OF Jeff Hughes
2B Diego Ardon

BFP and Eisenhower. Gulliver any good? Did Havana make the playoffs?

[recte44]

Remember, if I can't resign Swanson and I don't win it all this year, I just gave up six players for an aging SP and an ok infielder.

[Chey]

It was a tough decision to make -- and I'll discuss it myself in more depth shortly -- but ultimately it came down to me deciding that I was just too far out to really compete in the window in which Swanson/Hoffman would be value for money. I gambled on Rodriguez becoming a new long-term ace that I wouldn't have to pay for a while, and on one or two of the lesser light prospects to turn into genuine contributors.

The two pitchers might have each pitched well into their mid-late 30s, but they could also start to really decline any minute now (especially Hoffman, with his injury concerns), and I still believe I-Rod is the closest thing to a sure-fire elite ace you can find among the kids.

[recte44]

Chew on this- Dave Wren is now my fifth starter.

[Chey]

You definitely busted open the Landis conversation, and I'll be cheering like hell for Barbed Wire to finally win one.

[7teen]

You definitely busted open the Landis conversation, and I'll be cheering like hell for Barbed Wire to finally win one.

Didn't Swanson win one? Oh wait. #StillTooSoon

[agrudez]

Remember, if I can't resign Swanson and I don't win it all this year, I just gave up six players for an aging SP and an ok infielder.

Good thing you dumped over 30M in relative dead money into BUF's lap in the deal, then.

[crobillard]

Remember, if I can't resign Swanson and I don't win it all this year, I just gave up six players for an aging SP and an ok infielder.

Good thing you dumped over 30M in relative dead money into BUF's lap in the deal, then.

Boom

[avery]

The odds of Swanson "really declining any minute now" are so small that they shouldn't enter into any consideration.

[avery]

Matt won this deal, big time, which makes him a true hustler. Obviously LV had to give up some salary to take on what it did, but Stauffer? The dude is 36, over the hill, can't field, and he's injured for three months (broken ankle). Cmon on!

[recte44]

Stauffer's performance has never declined. He's been an All-Star nearly every year I've had him. Dumping him was the only way I could make this trade work, but I think Buffalo should be able to get at least a prospect back for him.

[avery]

BUF also made the right call to trade Hoffman, and I don't think he was ever going to get much for him. Getting Hoffman is a big plus (as long as he remains healthy), but trying to trade him was next to impossible, from what I understand. Everybody else had all year to get him and no one did.

[recte44]

Everybody else had all year to get him and no one did.

This is the most intelligent thing I've heard all morning, and the same can be said about Swanson.

[Chey]

I'll say this: the trade market for Hoffman was utterly negligible. Any deal I could get for him was either laughable, or pulled at the last minute as the potential trade partner got antsy re: his injury history. If I was any closer to being competitive, I would have kept both -- I personally rate Hoffman very highly. The bottom line for Hoffman was that there was really a pretty damn low chance he'd be anything approaching value for money by the time I was competitive.

It was a very, very hard decision to make, as this deal basically closed any shot at a championship window within the next 3 seasons. However, my team was missing a lot of the pieces it would take to actually move towards genuine contention, and I inherited a farm system that was more or less empty -- which means I had little help coming from the minor leagues and little in the way of trade chips to acquire players I would need.

I wasn't happy with this deal, but I remain confident that Rodriguez was the best option available in terms of young pitching; my goal now is to make moves quickly so I don't squander his cheap years the way my predecessor did with Swanson. If he doesn't turn out, as some people are suggesting, then this deal will obviously look awful five years from now. Life's a series of gambles I guess.

[Ted]

Everybody else had all year to get him and no one did.

This is the most intelligent thing I've heard all morning, and the same can be said about Swanson.