We have a podcast?shoeless.db wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:43 pmWhat the hell, guys? Save this stuff for the podcast. Most of us are too damn lazy to read all that.
Milestone Players Should Be in the Hall of Fame.
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Re: Milestone Players Should Be in the Hall of Fame.
"My $#!? doesn't work in the playoffs." - Billy Beane Joe Lederer
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Re: Milestone Players Should Be in the Hall of Fame.
Not one that's any good.jleddy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:19 pmWe have a podcast?shoeless.db wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:43 pmWhat the hell, guys? Save this stuff for the podcast. Most of us are too damn lazy to read all that.
Ted Schmidt
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Re: Milestone Players Should Be in the Hall of Fame.
Ted, respectfully, you can't equate all 120 years of MLB...I know you've addressed that elsewhere, but you said it again here.
If you're going to compare BBA and MLB in that way, you have to start looking at MLB from the modern era (by this I mean no earlier than 1970, if not even in the 80's), if not from whatever real life season was going on when the BBA moved to OOTP.
I'm almost sure that the rates would be near identical in that case. And thus 500 HR would look about as impressive in the BBA as MLB.
Anyway, to Aaron's point, this is a Hall of Fame, and and Hall of Fame for a fake baseball league. I'm a big hall guy anyway, but especially here. Why should we be so picky? We're all here to have fun, and a past player getting voted in is fun. I'm not saying vote everyone in, but if they're close/borderline? Absolutely.
If you're going to compare BBA and MLB in that way, you have to start looking at MLB from the modern era (by this I mean no earlier than 1970, if not even in the 80's), if not from whatever real life season was going on when the BBA moved to OOTP.
I'm almost sure that the rates would be near identical in that case. And thus 500 HR would look about as impressive in the BBA as MLB.
Anyway, to Aaron's point, this is a Hall of Fame, and and Hall of Fame for a fake baseball league. I'm a big hall guy anyway, but especially here. Why should we be so picky? We're all here to have fun, and a past player getting voted in is fun. I'm not saying vote everyone in, but if they're close/borderline? Absolutely.
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Re: Milestone Players Should Be in the Hall of Fame.
Depending on what you are saying, you may or may not be correct about home run rates being identical in MLB vs BBA from 1970 on. The number of 500 homer guys might be more on track. The rate at which home runs is hit, and therefore the relative value of any one home run, is absolutely not. The BBA is basically peak steroid era HR rate, all the time. Multiple guys hit 50 every year. Like 10+ hit 40 every season. We've been this way as long as I've been here.Lane wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:20 pmTed, respectfully, you can't equate all 120 years of MLB...I know you've addressed that elsewhere, but you said it again here.
If you're going to compare BBA and MLB in that way, you have to start looking at MLB from the modern era (by this I mean no earlier than 1970, if not even in the 80's), if not from whatever real life season was going on when the BBA moved to OOTP.
I'm almost sure that the rates would be near identical in that case. And thus 500 HR would look about as impressive in the BBA as MLB.
Anyway, to Aaron's point, this is a Hall of Fame, and and Hall of Fame for a fake baseball league. I'm a big hall guy anyway, but especially here. Why should we be so picky? We're all here to have fun, and a past player getting voted in is fun. I'm not saying vote everyone in, but if they're close/borderline? Absolutely.
And the argument I'm making is that guys like Dempsey and Mick aren't even close to borderline. But to each his own.
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Re: Milestone Players Should Be in the Hall of Fame.
Have to agree with Shoeless - this would be a tremendous podcast.
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Re: Milestone Players Should Be in the Hall of Fame.
I check to see if he's got a hot wife or GF. That gets my vote!JimBob2232 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:25 pmI look at it slightly differently - perhaps a blend of both points here. I look to see where a player ranks relative to others in a stat category. If I look and he is the highest player on a list NOT in the HOF - that means something to me.
Moreland is #13 all time in HRs. Everyone above him is in the HOF. Makes me more strongly consider him.
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Re: Milestone Players Should Be in the Hall of Fame.
See now we could all be sitting in Vegas on the BBAs 75th anniversary discussing this over some beverages!
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Re: Milestone Players Should Be in the Hall of Fame.
At least we can all agree it’s a better ballot than the real HOF ballot.
Micheal Cuddyer?! Lol. Gimme a break.
Micheal Cuddyer?! Lol. Gimme a break.
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Re: Milestone Players Should Be in the Hall of Fame.
Interesting thread. I'm more of a middling-big HoF kind of guy.
Ted's not wrong on his rail about 500 HR point--the issue there is the feeling that BBWA folks have had that 500 HR is kind of an automatic. In the BBA, it's pretty clear that 500 is not the same as 500 in the history of the MLB. Maybe that equation is 520, or 540, or ... whatever. The comparison of Moreland and Mick is interesting. HRs quite similar, WAR very different, with Moreland nearly twice as strong of a case. That seems like a reasonable thing to discuss--especially since Moreland hit for so long in obscurity in Des Moines. How to take that into account? I dunno.
I admit I appreciate Aaron's view of Hall of FAME. I have no issue with people voting in that vein. The Hall is who we think the Hall is. On the other hand, Bob Uecker is awfully danged famous...so...
WAR is WAR. It's not a Hall of WAR. But when you decide to let in a 25-30 WAR player, well, that's a pretty danged low bar.
Not sure what I'm really saying here, but I suggest everyone have fun voting--no matter how you vote.
Ted's not wrong on his rail about 500 HR point--the issue there is the feeling that BBWA folks have had that 500 HR is kind of an automatic. In the BBA, it's pretty clear that 500 is not the same as 500 in the history of the MLB. Maybe that equation is 520, or 540, or ... whatever. The comparison of Moreland and Mick is interesting. HRs quite similar, WAR very different, with Moreland nearly twice as strong of a case. That seems like a reasonable thing to discuss--especially since Moreland hit for so long in obscurity in Des Moines. How to take that into account? I dunno.
I admit I appreciate Aaron's view of Hall of FAME. I have no issue with people voting in that vein. The Hall is who we think the Hall is. On the other hand, Bob Uecker is awfully danged famous...so...
WAR is WAR. It's not a Hall of WAR. But when you decide to let in a 25-30 WAR player, well, that's a pretty danged low bar.
Not sure what I'm really saying here, but I suggest everyone have fun voting--no matter how you vote.
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Re: Milestone Players Should Be in the Hall of Fame.
I'm pretty sure Uecker is enshrined in the Broadcasting Hall of Fame, and well-deserved.
For a catcher, he was a pretty good broadcaster.
For a catcher, he was a pretty good broadcaster.
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Re: Milestone Players Should Be in the Hall of Fame.
WHOA! Someone mentioned a Brewer!? Now ill pay attention to this threadaaronweiner wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:27 amI'm pretty sure Uecker is enshrined in the Broadcasting Hall of Fame, and well-deserved.
For a catcher, he was a pretty good broadcaster.
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Re: Milestone Players Should Be in the Hall of Fame.
It isn't October, so of course we did.CTBrewCrew wrote: ↑Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:08 amWHOA! Someone mentioned a Brewer!? Now ill pay attention to this threadaaronweiner wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:27 amI'm pretty sure Uecker is enshrined in the Broadcasting Hall of Fame, and well-deserved.
For a catcher, he was a pretty good broadcaster.
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Re: Milestone Players Should Be in the Hall of Fame.
My favorite part of the original writeup is that WAR is meaningless once the players career is over. Now you didn't say that, so I stretched what you said to there. WAR is a tool to predict how a player will perform. After their career has ended, their career stands on the #'s they produced and milestones absolutely matter. If a player has 500 HR's or 3000 hits, I don't even look any further. Respect the accomplishments because they are meaningful. The leaderboards and milestones are what standout in the leagues history. Celebrate them and throw away WAR when it's time to vote for the HOF!
Just my opinion.
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Just my opinion.
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