The Base on Balls: Or, Is Mark Wareham The Unicorn Everyone Thinks He Is?

Beat articles, power rankings, statistical analysis, etc. goes here.
User avatar
RonCo
GB: JL Frontier Division Director
Posts: 19982
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:48 pm
Has thanked: 2012 times
Been thanked: 2983 times

The Base on Balls: Or, Is Mark Wareham The Unicorn Everyone Thinks He Is?

Post by RonCo » Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:12 pm

Image

Recent conversation has occurred around the wonderous talents of Mark Wareham, and exactly how it’s possible for a guy to draw the kind of walks it takes to hit .180 and still manage to get on base at a .400 clip. The theory, it seems, is that this would never happen, because pitchers would throw more “get it over” strikes to a guy who they knew couldn’t hit.

Well.

Yeah. That seems right.

But, you know, there’s another possible answer within the realm of “real” baseball. It’s possible that the pitcher could throw a guy strike after strike, and the guy was just able to foul them off so often that (1) he wouldn’t strike out, and (2) the pitcher would eventually walk him.

This got me to thinking about the game log script. It’s perfectly positioned to look at this situation. I mean, how many balls and strikes does Mark Wareham see relative to the league? Is his performance an OOTP ism, or is it actually “realistic” in the sense I’ve laid out a moment ago. In other words, does he foul off a lot more pitches than your average River Monster?

Well, I’m glad you asked…here’s the data in games through the end of April (about 28 games per team).

HitterPitchesBallsStr CalledStr SwingStr FoulStr Batted
League1253484818320421117602136123623
38.44%16.29%9.38%17.04%18.85%
Mark Wareham6552951075214655
45.04%16.34%7.94%22.29%8.40%
The bottom line is that on a per-pitch basis, the average hitter sees about 38% balls, and Wareham sees about 45% more. So, yes at least part of the “problem” is that pitchers are not pitching to him—which, per the above logic, says the game engine is probably warped someplace.

On the other hand, it’s also true that Wareham, bless is heart, is fouling off pitches at a 22.9% rate, while the rest of the league does this with only 17% of pitches. This is kind of weird, I guess, but fits into the whole argument against this kind of unicorn. For example, one could argue that the average hitter fouls off more pitches if they swing at ball our of the zone—maybe. I don’t know that that’s true, but it sounds good in a conference room.

Bottom line: yes, it does seem that for whatever reason OOTP does things they way they do, the game probably does get this wrong. At least it does if the idea is that pitchers would be a lot more aggressive with him, anyway.

Ultimately, of course, it’s this kind of thing that makes guys like Mark Wareham the unicorns they is.
GM: Bikini Krill
Nothing Matters But the Pacific Pennant
Roster

User avatar
shoeless.db
BBA GM
Posts: 2343
Joined: Wed May 29, 2019 10:25 pm
Has thanked: 1850 times
Been thanked: 1101 times

Re: The Base on Balls: Or, Is Mark Wareham The Unicorn Everyone Thinks He Is?

Post by shoeless.db » Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:19 pm

Hopefully, this gets fixed sometime down the road. There's no reason Wareham should see 7% more balls. If fixed, it would nerf some unicorns, for sure.
Sacramento Mad Popes
-- Vic Caleca Team News Award Winner 2052
-- BBA Champion 2053
— The Heartland Sucks
-- Pacific Champs 2040, 2042, 2043, 2047, 2048, 2049, 2051, 2053, 2054, 2058
Life is a bit more beautiful when time is measured by the half inning rather than the half hour.

User avatar
RonCo
GB: JL Frontier Division Director
Posts: 19982
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:48 pm
Has thanked: 2012 times
Been thanked: 2983 times

Re: The Base on Balls: Or, Is Mark Wareham The Unicorn Everyone Thinks He Is?

Post by RonCo » Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:22 pm

Like most things OOTP, I believe this would be somewhat hard to fix without some base design changes. But I dunno. I'll point someone to it, though.
GM: Bikini Krill
Nothing Matters But the Pacific Pennant
Roster

User avatar
Lane
GB: Vice Commissioner
Posts: 6818
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:18 am
Location: Los Angeles
Has thanked: 532 times
Been thanked: 719 times

Re: The Base on Balls: Or, Is Mark Wareham The Unicorn Everyone Thinks He Is?

Post by Lane » Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:46 pm

shoeless.db wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:19 pm
Hopefully, this gets fixed sometime down the road. There's no reason Wareham should see 7% more balls. If fixed, it would nerf some unicorns, for sure.
...Ted?
Stephen Lane
Vice Commissioner / Historian
General Manager, Long Beach Surfers
Since 2026

Image


Ex-GM, Amsterdam Neptunes, 2025 EBA Champions

User avatar
shoeless.db
BBA GM
Posts: 2343
Joined: Wed May 29, 2019 10:25 pm
Has thanked: 1850 times
Been thanked: 1101 times

Re: The Base on Balls: Or, Is Mark Wareham The Unicorn Everyone Thinks He Is?

Post by shoeless.db » Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:53 pm

Lane wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:46 pm
shoeless.db wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:19 pm
Hopefully, this gets fixed sometime down the road. There's no reason Wareham should see 7% more balls. If fixed, it would nerf some unicorns, for sure.
...Ted?
Oh, god! The transition is happening, isn't it? It's out of my control...
Sacramento Mad Popes
-- Vic Caleca Team News Award Winner 2052
-- BBA Champion 2053
— The Heartland Sucks
-- Pacific Champs 2040, 2042, 2043, 2047, 2048, 2049, 2051, 2053, 2054, 2058
Life is a bit more beautiful when time is measured by the half inning rather than the half hour.

Spiccoli
Ex-GM
Posts: 1376
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:24 pm
Has thanked: 123 times
Been thanked: 118 times

Re: The Base on Balls: Or, Is Mark Wareham The Unicorn Everyone Thinks He Is?

Post by Spiccoli » Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:19 pm

Well... if Wareham is fouling more balls off than average, then wouldn’t that boost the ball % since any 2 strike fouls wouldn’t count?

Anyway, maybe umpires give Wareham the close calls because his eye may be the best in the league?... lol.
Scott Piccoli GM Twin Cities

User avatar
RonCo
GB: JL Frontier Division Director
Posts: 19982
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:48 pm
Has thanked: 2012 times
Been thanked: 2983 times

Re: The Base on Balls: Or, Is Mark Wareham The Unicorn Everyone Thinks He Is?

Post by RonCo » Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:26 pm

:)
GM: Bikini Krill
Nothing Matters But the Pacific Pennant
Roster

User avatar
RonCo
GB: JL Frontier Division Director
Posts: 19982
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:48 pm
Has thanked: 2012 times
Been thanked: 2983 times

Re: The Base on Balls: Or, Is Mark Wareham The Unicorn Everyone Thinks He Is?

Post by RonCo » Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:28 pm

It's of general interest that he's not swinging and missing as much as league average either...though sample size conversation needs to be brought into this, too.
GM: Bikini Krill
Nothing Matters But the Pacific Pennant
Roster

jleddy
Ex-GM
Posts: 3216
Joined: Mon May 27, 2019 5:46 pm
Location: Long Beach, CA
Has thanked: 3377 times
Been thanked: 1174 times

Re: The Base on Balls: Or, Is Mark Wareham The Unicorn Everyone Thinks He Is?

Post by jleddy » Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:32 pm

Love this, Ron!

I can buy it to some degree...great eye so he doesn't swing at borderline pitches that could be typically swung on and missed, plus he seemingly fouls off balls grooved to him, resulting in more opportunities for pitchers to throw balls in the rest of the at-bat. Works for me! Add the drop in pitching talent and maybe Wareham's got a few umpires in his backpocket with some of that $114M career earnings.

Stop me if you've heard me say this before, but I like comparing BBA players to MLB players. Closest I could come up with is Gene Tenace, strictly from a slash line sense: GT - .241/.388/.429, MW -.239/.389/.412.
"My $#!? doesn't work in the playoffs." - Billy Beane Joe Lederer

User avatar
RonCo
GB: JL Frontier Division Director
Posts: 19982
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:48 pm
Has thanked: 2012 times
Been thanked: 2983 times

Re: The Base on Balls: Or, Is Mark Wareham The Unicorn Everyone Thinks He Is?

Post by RonCo » Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:39 pm

The only logical issue is that the data above is on a per-pitch basis. But, yes, these kinds of players exist...kind of, anyway...but not so much in offensive ages like we're in today.
GM: Bikini Krill
Nothing Matters But the Pacific Pennant
Roster

User avatar
RonCo
GB: JL Frontier Division Director
Posts: 19982
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:48 pm
Has thanked: 2012 times
Been thanked: 2983 times

Re: The Base on Balls: Or, Is Mark Wareham The Unicorn Everyone Thinks He Is?

Post by RonCo » Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:56 pm

jleddy wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:32 pm
Love this, Ron!

I can buy it to some degree...great eye so he doesn't swing at borderline pitches that could be typically swung on and missed, plus he seemingly fouls off balls grooved to him, resulting in more opportunities for pitchers to throw balls in the rest of the at-bat. Works for me! Add the drop in pitching talent and maybe Wareham's got a few umpires in his backpocket with some of that $114M career earnings.

Stop me if you've heard me say this before, but I like comparing BBA players to MLB players. Closest I could come up with is Gene Tenace, strictly from a slash line sense: GT - .241/.388/.429, MW -.239/.389/.412.
I took my similarity tool and threw Wareham's data into it...here are his stats and the top 10 most similar MLB players of all time...not really too similar, but it's a fun list.


NamePOSEndYrSimilarityG2BHRRBISBCSBBSOAVGOBPSLG
WarehamSS1648205249725602176142317080.2390.3890.412
Jose ValentinSS2007851.216783022498161365663012940.2430.3300.448
Rico PetrocelliSS1976818.8155323721077310226619260.2510.3420.420
Dick McAuliffe2B1975811.5176323119769763598829740.2470.3500.403
Eddie JoostSS1955810.91574238134601613110438270.2390.3620.366
Roy SmalleySS1987809.6165324416369427347719080.2570.3520.395
J. J. HardySS2017794.51561291188688894119600.2560.3100.408
Davey Lopes2B1987785.618122321556145571148338520.2630.3550.388
Juan UribeSS2016784.61826323199816483938812240.2550.3060.418
Alex GonzalezSS2014779.11609332157690302230011680.2450.2970.395
Frankie CrosettiSS1948778.0168326098649113627927990.2450.3410.354
GM: Bikini Krill
Nothing Matters But the Pacific Pennant
Roster

User avatar
RonCo
GB: JL Frontier Division Director
Posts: 19982
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:48 pm
Has thanked: 2012 times
Been thanked: 2983 times

Re: The Base on Balls: Or, Is Mark Wareham The Unicorn Everyone Thinks He Is?

Post by RonCo » Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:59 pm

I like this list because, if nothing else, the world needed another Davy Lopes reference...and look at you, Frank Crosetti!
GM: Bikini Krill
Nothing Matters But the Pacific Pennant
Roster

jleddy
Ex-GM
Posts: 3216
Joined: Mon May 27, 2019 5:46 pm
Location: Long Beach, CA
Has thanked: 3377 times
Been thanked: 1174 times

Re: The Base on Balls: Or, Is Mark Wareham The Unicorn Everyone Thinks He Is?

Post by jleddy » Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:42 pm

I think I likened Wareham to Lopes in Slack a while back...I dig that too.
"My $#!? doesn't work in the playoffs." - Billy Beane Joe Lederer

User avatar
Lane
GB: Vice Commissioner
Posts: 6818
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:18 am
Location: Los Angeles
Has thanked: 532 times
Been thanked: 719 times

Re: The Base on Balls: Or, Is Mark Wareham The Unicorn Everyone Thinks He Is?

Post by Lane » Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:12 pm

I feel like I read somewhere that OOTP processes things at a Plate Appearance level (as opposed to pitch by pitch). I'm guessing this is not true now? Perhaps it was never true?
Stephen Lane
Vice Commissioner / Historian
General Manager, Long Beach Surfers
Since 2026

Image


Ex-GM, Amsterdam Neptunes, 2025 EBA Champions

Ted
Ex-GM
Posts: 5630
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 2:50 pm
Has thanked: 368 times
Been thanked: 378 times

Re: The Base on Balls: Or, Is Mark Wareham The Unicorn Everyone Thinks He Is?

Post by Ted » Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:17 pm

shoeless.db wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:53 pm
Lane wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:46 pm
shoeless.db wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:19 pm
Hopefully, this gets fixed sometime down the road. There's no reason Wareham should see 7% more balls. If fixed, it would nerf some unicorns, for sure.
...Ted?
Oh, god! The transition is happening, isn't it? It's out of my control...
See?!? It's not me. There's something wrong with the water in Crusaders Park.

Nice analysis Ron. Not a lot of fun to see another way the game doesn't work well, but it's a good question and interesting to know the answer.
Ted Schmidt
Twin Cities Typing Nightmares(2044-present)
California Crusaders (2021-2038)
Image

User avatar
RonCo
GB: JL Frontier Division Director
Posts: 19982
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:48 pm
Has thanked: 2012 times
Been thanked: 2983 times

Re: The Base on Balls: Or, Is Mark Wareham The Unicorn Everyone Thinks He Is?

Post by RonCo » Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:18 pm

It is true that ootp processes things on what is essentially a plate appearance basis. They've said that on the public boards in the past...assuming the core process hasn't changed, it will be hard to truly "fix" this.
GM: Bikini Krill
Nothing Matters But the Pacific Pennant
Roster

Ted
Ex-GM
Posts: 5630
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 2:50 pm
Has thanked: 368 times
Been thanked: 378 times

Re: The Base on Balls: Or, Is Mark Wareham The Unicorn Everyone Thinks He Is?

Post by Ted » Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:31 pm

You know, this has me thinking that and understanding of baseball from the mind of someone who played has some consequences I hadn't anticipated. I didn't really think to even ask this question. In hindsight, of course a guy who can't hit the ball with authority wouldn't see so many balls. But I don't look at the actual game that way. I just see high eye -> walks good -> good OBP -> player good despite poor BA. And don't even think about how it doesn't make baseball sense. Trying to put together a team with baseball sense influencing your decisions might be a handicap.
Ted Schmidt
Twin Cities Typing Nightmares(2044-present)
California Crusaders (2021-2038)
Image

User avatar
Lane
GB: Vice Commissioner
Posts: 6818
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:18 am
Location: Los Angeles
Has thanked: 532 times
Been thanked: 719 times

Re: The Base on Balls: Or, Is Mark Wareham The Unicorn Everyone Thinks He Is?

Post by Lane » Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:42 pm

It makes sense to me from a programming sense (disclamer: not a programmer) because the equation could be good eye->more balls->more walks; but yeah, it doesn't make a lot of sense from a real life baseball sense. As a highly accomplished baseball player mysef (disclamer: not really) I think it's important, and difficult, to separate the two.
Stephen Lane
Vice Commissioner / Historian
General Manager, Long Beach Surfers
Since 2026

Image


Ex-GM, Amsterdam Neptunes, 2025 EBA Champions

User avatar
jiminyhopkins
BBA GM
Posts: 3515
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:33 pm
Location: OH
Has thanked: 303 times
Been thanked: 934 times

Re: The Base on Balls: Or, Is Mark Wareham The Unicorn Everyone Thinks He Is?

Post by jiminyhopkins » Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:27 pm

Another product of the legendary Munchen Brauers of the EBA.
GM, 2051, 2053, and 2058 JL WILDCARD Phoenix Talons (2029-??), BBA
CARETAKER GM, 2053 GBC CHAMPION Tokyo Pearls (2053 - 2058)
GM, THE GREATEST MINOR LEAGUE TEAM OF ALL TIME Toledo Liberty
Vic Caleca Team News Award Winner: 2051, 2054, 2057

ca13
Ex-GM
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:31 pm
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 39 times

Re: The Base on Balls: Or, Is Mark Wareham The Unicorn Everyone Thinks He Is?

Post by ca13 » Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:59 pm

Threads like this make me think I want to stay in the UMEBA kiddy pool for awhile.
Ted wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:31 pm
You know, this has me thinking that and understanding of baseball from the mind of someone who played has some consequences I hadn't anticipated. I didn't really think to even ask this question. In hindsight, of course a guy who can't hit the ball with authority wouldn't see so many balls. But I don't look at the actual game that way. I just see high eye -> walks good -> good OBP -> player good despite poor BA. And don't even think about how it doesn't make baseball sense. Trying to put together a team with baseball sense influencing your decisions might be a handicap.
What if you don't have an understanding of baseball from playing it AND you don't have a lot of experience with video game baseball?

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic

Return to “League Features”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 19 guests