Dr. Shawn Huber or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Relief Ace

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Dr. Shawn Huber or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Relief Ace

Post by jleddy » Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:45 pm

Watched this video (uploaded yesterday) by everyone's favorite MLB YouTuber, Jomboy, about 1970s relief ace Mike Marshall. The video specifically covered Marshall's Cy Young season of 1974 when he appeared in a whopping 106 games, a Major League record.

Well, once again, the BBA trumped the MLB with their own Diogo Lindt of the Long Beach Surfers. Lindt appeared in 107 games last season, a Brewster record. Now appearing in over 100+ games doesn't mean you're a superstar, as Lindt didn't even place as a finalist for the Egan in 2040, let alone come close to winning the Nebraska. But are similar high-volume bullpen studs like Shawn Huber and Peter Grady being slighted come Nebraska voting?

Here's a comparison (sorted by WAR) of Marshall's Cy Young season against Lindt's record setting 2040, plus Huber's outstanding 2040 and Grady's 2039, both which earned them Egan awards:

PLAYERYEARWLSVGIPERAFIPWHIPKBBWAR
Shawn Huber20401041285154.22.502.520.94211484.9
Peter Grady2039951988189.02.902.981.05208414.8
Mike Marshall1974151221106208.12.422.591.19143563.1
Diogo Lindt2040955107168.14.124.841.19165470.3
By virtue of being a reliever, guys like Huber and Grady will never be able to compete in WAR against starting pitchers (Dan Cannon led the BBA in pitching WAR last year at 7.5). However, in an era in which starting pitching talent is few and far between and with teams running out 45 and 50-rated pitchers for 150+ innings of average production, shouldn't relievers providing the same quantity of innings with greater quality be given far more attention, both in assembling pitching staffs and during the awards season?

Would love to hear from two Brewster camps: those who use relievers like Huber, Grady and Lindt and what it means to their pitching staff as a whole, and those who employ traditional bullpens in which a reliever is unlikely to top 80 or so innings per year and why they feel like that is the best practice.
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Re: Dr. Shawn Huber or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Relief Ace

Post by bschr682 » Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:22 pm

I’m a recent convert. No strong opinions yet.
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Re: Dr. Shawn Huber or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Relief Ace

Post by recte44 » Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:48 pm

I said during the awards voting that I voted Huber #1 for the Nebraska Award and I stand by that vote.

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Re: Dr. Shawn Huber or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Relief Ace

Post by bigmike13 » Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:05 pm

Love the Dr. Strangelove reference. Nicely done
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Re: Dr. Shawn Huber or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Relief Ace

Post by Lane » Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:53 am

I had Huber #2 in the Nebraska voting.

And in 2039 when Lindt made 97 appearances with 170 innings and a 3.01 ERA I gave him a first place vote.

I think there's momentum towards recognizing these types of performances, but there's still a long way to go. Lindt didn't even win the reliever award that year, I think because of a lack of saves.
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Re: Dr. Shawn Huber or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Relief Ace

Post by HoosierVic » Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:12 am

Yes, kudos for sure on the Strangelove reference. Hope Boise can avoid a costly mineshaft gap ...

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Re: Dr. Shawn Huber or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Relief Ace

Post by CTBrewCrew » Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:42 am

Kind of reminds me of Madisons current rotation....heres our PC now...wonder if hes coming back...

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Re: Dr. Shawn Huber or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Relief Ace

Post by RonCo » Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:39 am

I love thinking about these things. I should note that the BBA has not yet had a 208 inning reliever, so the comparison is still off. But, yes, the Marshall/Gossage/Sutter/Smith era as a different beast. You can see the raw differences is usage between Marshall and out BBA comps purely by the counting stats--wins, saves, etc. Marshall was amazing, specifically because he was on the mound essentially every time the Dodgers had something on the line.

Good relief pitcher have always gotten the short shift, though. Mostly because they have generally not been as good as starters. AT the end of the day, I think the right idea for any manger is to use the chips he's got in the best fashion. If you have the privilege of having top quality starters, you throw them. Otherwise you mix and match. With in the realms of OOTP's capability, I've been doing that for about five years--essentially running with a 3-man rotation and using spot openers. My bullpen (like Lane's) has been a high-workload staff, though as a rule I tend to smooth it out. One season Tristan ALfama did gather something like 14 wins and 150 or so innings, but usually my guys are a little lower--though I admit that's because my draft strategy has been to build super-cheap, but pretty solid bullpens from the ground up (which is what you do when you're drafting in the 30s. :) )

The problem when it comes to awards, of course, is that those high-leverage RPs have to compete against the top starters, and as a rule the top starters will be stronger candidates. You see that in MLB, too.

Anyway, Dan Cannon had a better year than Peter Grady did in 2039. He won the Nebraska. It's arguable that Huber had a better year than Cannon in 2040, but I'd disagree. Cannon had 60 more innings. Huber was probably more valuable to Vegas than Cannon was to Rockville, but that's because Vegas wasn't actually as good as Rockville. Still, that's an interesting conversation, and rational people can disagree.

Regardless, I love that in OOTP you can finally experiment with pitcher usage in ways that make these conversations possible.
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Re: Dr. Shawn Huber or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Relief Ace

Post by CTBrewCrew » Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:23 pm

different game today - no such thing as a LOOGY guy back then (Lefty One Out Guy) in the bullpens...
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Re: Dr. Shawn Huber or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Relief Ace

Post by crobillard » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:44 pm

RonCo wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:39 am
Huber was probably more valuable to Vegas than Cannon was to Rockville, but that's because Vegas wasn't actually as good as Rockville.
Are you trying to give Brett more to sulk about so he wins another Landis?

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Re: Dr. Shawn Huber or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Relief Ace

Post by bschr682 » Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:50 am

Oh I dont need help. We are terrible this year...
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Re: Dr. Shawn Huber or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Relief Ace

Post by jleddy » Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:04 pm

bschr682 wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:50 am
Oh I dont need help. We are terrible this year...
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