Drafting Bad Pitching - A Look Back at Wilson's Hits and Misses

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Drafting Bad Pitching - A Look Back at Wilson's Hits and Misses

Post by 7teen » Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:20 pm

I was going to type this up as a team news and once I got into it, I realized this was pretty in-depth and would include pitchers that have pitched for a wide variety of teams and GMs since being drafted by Madison and felt it would be a good read for more than just me and those who just skim team news articles. Since we are in the middle of the draft I thought it to be a good time to go through this myself. I know Ron has done some pieces on Yellow Springs' draft recaps so decided to dig a little deeper into my own. I've commented in the last few days about my failure to really draft good pitching, thus why I drafted yet another bat this draft rather than dig for a pitcher. This made me want to look back at the history of my 1st round picks and focus solely on pitchers that I've taken in the first round and what success (or in most cases failures) they've become. So here is a list and rundown of every pitcher that I have ever drafted in the first round of the draft, including the supplemental first round.

2035
Sixto Maldonado
The 2035 draft was a dog mess. Madison drafted Sixto thinking we'd at least hang onto a stud reliever for years to come. He was drafted as a 10/6/7 guy with a pair of good pitches and an average velocity. In just under a year since being drafted 16th overall, he's tanked. He's now down to an 8/5/6 pitcher who in all probability will never make it to the major leagues. He currently sits in Single-A and has left Madison wishing they hadn't signed him and could take a chance on taking someone else 17th this draft.

2031
Gabriel Vallejo
Perhaps taking Vallejo is why Madison waited 4 more drafts before taking another pitcher round 1. We took Gabriel with the 9th overall pick with 9/8/7 ratings. I guess Vallejo is a great example of why you shouldn't take high school pitchers. He was 17 when we took him but we ignored the warnings because we loved his ratings and he had 4 pitches. It's now 2036 and the 21 year old Vallejo is in AAA where he'll likely never leave. His ratings have dropped to 6/7/4 and his pitches have also taken a hit. It is possible that with a velocity that reaches 98 and 4 pitches he could be converted into a serviceable reliever, but he's not the starting pitching stud Madison hoped he'd be at this point when he was drafted 9th overall.

2029
Tommy Dietz
Dietz is a guy that has at least made somewhat of a name for himself in the league. After being drafted 13th overall in the 2029 draft, he was in Madison by 2031 making starts. In 4 seasons as a starter in Madison, he won 41 games and kept his ERA under 5.00 each season. He was always a contender for a good RP conversion because of the huge assortment of pitches he had. He started falling off a little after 2034 and Madison left him available in the expansion draft. He's since gone to San Fernando where he's been converted to a reliever. He's still just 26 years old but will become just a regular ol' reliever from this point on I'm afraid. He was drafted with 8/7/7 ratings and is currently at 9/6/5 but only has 2 pitches now when he had 8 I believe at one point.

2021
Willie Russell
Eight years prior to drafting Dietz, Madison took Willie Russell. Russell was a 9/6/7 guy when drafted but quickly hit the tanker. Injuries and a drop in stuff made him a pedestrian pitcher and Russell would be drafted by Amsterdam in the EBA expansion draft from Madison after spending 5 seasons in the Wolves farm system. He'd pitch 3 years in Amsterdam in only 36 games. He'd return to America at the age of 25 and rejoin the BBA. He'd pitch in 1 game that season with Havana. He'd make 3 appearances in 2030. After 1 more season in the minor leagues, he quit professional baseball for good.

2019
Hector Leyva
We're to the point now where the news log doesn't show up on all of these guys if they are retired. Leyva was picked 19th overall by Madison and had 6 pitches and what appears to be decent ratings. It appears he spent 2 seasons in the Wolves farm system before being traded to Omaha. He'd make it to the big leagues but for only a short stint. He'd pitch with the Barnstormers from 2026-2028, appearing in 51 games and starting 18. He'd go 8-10 during that span with a solid 3.78 ERA. He lasted just 188.1 innings. He'd spend 2029 in AAA and then was out of baseball. He's currently 37 years old living at home in Puerto Rico. He still shows the ratings that would be good for a reliever conversion, if his stamina was above 5.

2016
John Woods and Cap Morgan
20 years ago John Woods was drafted with the 15th overall pick. He was named the #19th overall prospect in the league the next off-season and it appeared Madison had them a potential ace pitcher. His control lumped and he went from a 10/8/6 pitcher to a 9/8/4 one. Madison sent him to Tucson in a trade that brought the Wolves back a solid starter for their rotation. Fast forward ahead to 2036 and Woods is still in the league!! He's been a journeyman no doubt. He never made it as a starter. But he's been with 7 different teams over the course of his career and just recently signed a 2 year contract to pitch for Seattle. He's 50-50 for his career with 30 saves. He's pitched in 521 games over his career while making 107 starts. It's not been a hall of fame career (he has just a 5.9 WAR) but he's stuck around and made some big league dough.

Last October, Cap Morgan officially retired from baseball. The former 1st pick in the supplemental round draft, had a few decent moments in the big leagues. He was traded to Omaha two seasons after being drafted and was traded again not long after that. He made his debut with Des Moines in 2021 and stayed in the BBA until 2032. Over the last 3 seasons, he's traveled up and down from the BBA to the minors. He pitched in 425 games over his career and started 171. He went 60-98 with 51 saves and a 4.66 ERA. He was a 7/7/9 guy when drafted, dropped to 6/7/9 after that but held there and made a decent career for himself with those ratings.

2014
Miguel Flores
Flores had all the makings of a stud reliever in the BBA. Drafted 13th overall, he made his debut in 2018 at the age of 23 and was about to form what Madison thought was going to be an all-time great bullpen alongside Luis Tiant, IV. He had the nickname "Slider" despite the fact he didn't actually throw one. He had a hard fastball and 10/8/8 ratings. There was nothing that could slow him down. Except injuries. Or to be more specific, AN injury. Towards the end of his second season, he suffered a torn UCL that sidelined him for the rest of the season. Unfortunately for Flores and the Wolves, the injury turned out to be more serious than expected. The 26 year old's career was over. Here is the Team News describing the CEI.

2013
Jay Lee, Jr
If memory serves correctly, Lee was a reach at 16th overall pick in this draft, but the draft wasn't very strong. I was hoping to cash in on his dad being an all-time great and him being a lefty. It didn't work. Lee pitched parts of 4 seasons in the BBA, going 8-9 in 89 appearances with a 4.95 ERA. He spent 4 more seasons pitching in the EBA before coming back to the BBA where he spent the last few years of his career in the minor leagues.

2012
Luis Tiant, IV
Maybe the best pitcher I've ever drafted in the first round since my time in the league. There is one other guy coming that may keep that "maybe" label attached but it's close. Many times, taking a reliever 12th overall isn't that smart, but when they can give you what Tiant gave Madison it pays off. Tiant saved 40 or more games 3 times in his career and was a career that saw him win the top reliever award in the Johnson League in 2016, 2020, and 2021. His 2020 and 2021 seasons were two of the best by a reliever in league history in my opinion. Tiant was also a serviceable starter as he made 116 career starts. In 2017 he started all 32 games that season for Madison and posted a 3.46 ERA. In the end, he posted an 85-69 record with 287 career saves. He's second all-time in saves in Madison Wolves history and a member of our team HOF.

2011
Mark Burns
Burns was a guy that just sort of stuck around for most of his career. He always seemed to underachieve despite having ratings that proved he could be a viable 3-5 starter. With 6/6/8 ratings and at his time, he could have and probably should have made more of himself. But in the end, he didn't live up to being the 18th overall draft pick. He pitched in the BBA for 15 seasons for 7 different franchises but spent his first 6.5 seasons with Madison. In the end, he accumulated 9.9 WAR while going 78-86 with a 4.45 career ERA. He appeared in 544 games with 158 of those being starts.His best season was his rookie year in 2016 when he went 12-11 with a 4.04 ERA in 31 starts.

2010
Peter Bryant
If there is one guy on this list I could possibly bump Tiant, IV off as the best on it, it would be Peter Bryant. Bryant was selected 23rd overall in 2011 and used high movement and high control to dice his way into a very good career. On 3 different occasions he finished top 10 in the league in wins. Four times he finished top 10 in ERA. Three times in WAR. He relied on a very heavy assortment of pitches as well, as he was difficult to hit homeruns off of and typically finished highly on the leaderboards in GB%. He won double digit games 8 times in his career, topping out with 18 wins in 2019 with the Wolves. He pithced in the BBA for 14 seasons with 10.5 of those being in a Wolves uniform. He appeared in 406 games with 386 of those being starts and he retired with a 157-136 overall record and a 3.79 ERA. He is currently in the Wolves HOF.

2008
Tom Holman
I really don't remember much about this guy. But he pitched in Madison from 2013-2019 and was the 23rd overall pick in 2008. So I searched my TN and found this:
Specialist LHP Tom Holman - This may really be a wasted roster spot and someone else who can log more innings may be better suited for someone who can log more innings and outs. For now, Holman will face just lefties, a job he's had the last 2 years.
He was also mentioned in a few pitching reviews from 2017 but that's about it. In that season he appeared in 50 games and had a 1.25 ERA so he must have done his job well. Oh, he only pitched 21.2 innings over 50 games you say? Yeesh!

2006
Darryl Robinson
Despite having spent 11 seasons in Madison, I don't remember this guy that much either. You think I might since he pitched 620 games of relief in Madison. But I don't. He was the 24th overall pick and was in the big leagues 3 years after being drafted. From 2011 to 2013, he had a WAR over 1.0 in each season and retired with a career 6.6 WAR. Not that bad I suppose. I searched his name and perhaps found out why I don't remember him.
"Darryl Robinson is dead to me" - 2019 Sim #19 Chatter
2005
Jorge Garcia
Another 24th overall pick. He spent 16 seasons in the minor leagues. He never threw a pitch in the big leagues. I was excited to talk about Garcia. When I thought it was THIS Jorge Garcia. Obviously it wasn't. That Garcia was taken in 1998. Before my time. :bag:

2004
Steve Black and John Edwards
Black was yet another 24th overall pick. Yeah, Madison was pretty good there for a while and we always had the last freaking pick in the draft. Black appeared to have some good stuff and good pitches. But it didn't help him any in the bigs. He made only 22 appearances in the BBA. 19 With Greenville in 2010-2011 and 3 with Seattle in 2014.

Edwards was the 10th pick in the supplemental round 1 draft and had a little more staying power. He made it to the bigs in 2 seasons, making relief appearances in 2006. In 2013, he led the league in holds with 24 and was in the top 10 in JL holds on 3 other occasions. He lasted 15 seasons in the BBA, appearing in 687 games, all as a reliever. He spent time with 6 different franchises but 6.5 of those were with Madison, more than any other team. He was 61-43 overall with 57 saves and a 4.17 ERA. Not a whole lot was said about Edwards. I did find this though:
"We are excited to see the future of our bullpen" said GM Chris Wilson. "The addition of Robinson in a few years alongside Jorge Garcia and John Edwards should give us a solid 'power of 3" bullpen down the road. Not to mention, we're in the process of trying to solidify our future rotation as well. We love our young corps of pitching that is shaping up here in Madison."
2002
Eric Craigston
A supplemental round guy who lasted 8 seasons in the league and posted a whopping 1.5 overall career WAR. He never pitched for Madison, instead he spent 5 seasons with Vegas, a pair with Atlantic City, and a year on vacation with Hawaii. Not much else I can say about a guy with a career 13-8 record over 8 seasons.

2001
Will Cameron
One of our first drafts with Madison. Cameron spent exactly 1 game with the Wolves in the big leagues. He gave up 2 runs in 1.1 innings and was shipped off to Valencia. He did make a little career out of things after that, spending 13 years in the league while logging 145 starts and 250 total appearances. Granted, his 48-71 record and 4.73 ERA doesn't scream success to anyone. He did win 23 games over two seasons with Valencia and had a real solid 3 year run in the EBA at the end of his career, but other than that, not much else to say.

So there ya have it. Perhaps this is why I stayed away from drafting a pitcher. To date, it appears I have drafted 1 good starter (Peter Bryant), a pair of really good relievers (Tiant and Flores) though one's career was cut way short. A few decent lasting guys, and quite a few bums in the first round.
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Re: Drafting Bad Pitching - A Look Back at Wilson's Hits and Misses

Post by Lane » Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:52 pm

My biggest takeaway here is that you've been around for a loooooooooooooooooooong time.
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Re: Drafting Bad Pitching - A Look Back at Wilson's Hits and Misses

Post by Rubaboo » Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:40 pm

You have much better luck trading for my good pitchers instead. Let's review that as well.

2017:
Steve Hoffman
Division rivals Madison and Omaha agree to a deal that sends stud SP Steve Hoffman to the Wolves in exchange for a gaggle of players. Madison goes on to fame and glory, before bowing out in the Doubleday... Oh wait, this never actually happened in recorded history... Hoffman went to Halifax, posted a 16-0 record and won the whole shebang. Moving on...

2032:
Enrique Gomez
Another high end pitcher moves between division rivals, Gomez pitched for a season and a half before a paperwork snafu in the Wolves front office allowed Gomez his freedom to flee to Rockville. Gomez, combined with Dempster and Canon for the Pikemen, makes up a part of one of the strongest pitching groups in the BBA.

...on second thought, maybe don't trade for my guys either. Hitters are better for you maybe?
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Re: Drafting Bad Pitching - A Look Back at Wilson's Hits and Misses

Post by 7teen » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:30 am

Rubaboo wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:40 pm
You have much better luck trading for my good pitchers instead. Let's review that as well.

2017:
Steve Hoffman
Division rivals Madison and Omaha agree to a deal that sends stud SP Steve Hoffman to the Wolves in exchange for a gaggle of players. Madison goes on to fame and glory, before bowing out in the Doubleday... Oh wait, this never actually happened in recorded history... Hoffman went to Halifax, posted a 16-0 record and won the whole shebang. Moving on...

2032:
Enrique Gomez
Another high end pitcher moves between division rivals, Gomez pitched for a season and a half before a paperwork snafu in the Wolves front office allowed Gomez his freedom to flee to Rockville. Gomez, combined with Dempster and Canon for the Pikemen, makes up a part of one of the strongest pitching groups in the BBA.

...on second thought, maybe don't trade for my guys either. Hitters are better for you maybe?
Considering what Pham and Rodriguez have turned into, that trade is looking real bad for me now. Especially after Gomez bolted.

And ah yeah, the old Hoffman trade. The one I used to blame Kyle for all the time. We actually made it to the Cartright that season and lost in Game 7 I believe. Or maybe that was all a dream.

And the Nunez trade I made is about to go down in infamy with those other ones as well. Maybe I should just play with 27 offensive guys and forego the pitching all together.

The one good trade i made was acquring a guy named Sinclair Kooijman. He was destined to be great until he was struck with a CEI.
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Re: Drafting Bad Pitching - A Look Back at Wilson's Hits and Misses

Post by Rubaboo » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:54 am

I still feel bad about making the Hoffman trade with Halifax in the 2017 redo. That had been the deal I wanted from the start but Robillard balked in the first go around before you and I made our deal. That all the guys I got from Halifax, save Atsumori Maeda, lumped into oblivion probably comes down to karma for pulling the rug out from under you.
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Re: Drafting Bad Pitching - A Look Back at Wilson's Hits and Misses

Post by 7teen » Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:06 am

Rubaboo wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:54 am
I still feel bad about making the Hoffman trade with Halifax in the 2017 redo. That had been the deal I wanted from the start but Robillard balked in the first go around before you and I made our deal. That all the guys I got from Halifax, save Atsumori Maeda, lumped into oblivion probably comes down to karma for pulling the rug out from under you.
I think I was pretty upset when it all went down but you had to do what you had to do for your team.

Oddly enough, two of the guys that were in our original trade were in this feature. Woods and Morgan.

Looking back at our trade, it doesn't appear as if any of the pieces I sent you really amounted to much either. Woods is still ticking and has had a decent career. I'm assuming Aicon was towards the back end of his career at the time. He had a good run in the league but nothing in our deal amounted to what Hoffman was.
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LB Surfers 95-96
FL Pac Champs: 95

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JL MW: 99-2009, 17, 20, 21
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FL WC: 31, 33
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Re: Drafting Bad Pitching - A Look Back at Wilson's Hits and Misses

Post by 7teen » Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:11 am

I was thinking Rios in that deal was ol' Robert "Chappy" Rios but maybe I have Chappy confused with someone else. I can't seem to find him in the history.
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LB Surfers 95-96
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JL MW: 99-2009, 17, 20, 21
JL WC: 12
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FL WC: 31, 33
BBA Champs: 04, 09

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Re: Drafting Bad Pitching - A Look Back at Wilson's Hits and Misses

Post by RonCo » Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:36 am

Fun read. It would be interesting to know exactly how much value each team has pulled out of the draft over the years.
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Re: Drafting Bad Pitching - A Look Back at Wilson's Hits and Misses

Post by Rubaboo » Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:18 am

7teen wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:11 am
I was thinking Rios in that deal was ol' Robert "Chappy" Rios but maybe I have Chappy confused with someone else. I can't seem to find him in the history.
No, it was Chappy. Funny thing about all this was that I ended up with Cap and Chappy in seperate deals anyway. I always joked with Brett about Cappy and Chappy anchoring the middle of my rotation. ...and then I traded them both away...
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Re: Drafting Bad Pitching - A Look Back at Wilson's Hits and Misses

Post by 7teen » Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:22 am

Rubaboo wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:18 am
7teen wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:11 am
I was thinking Rios in that deal was ol' Robert "Chappy" Rios but maybe I have Chappy confused with someone else. I can't seem to find him in the history.
No, it was Chappy. Funny thing about all this was that I ended up with Cap and Chappy in seperate deals anyway. I always joked with Brett about Cappy and Chappy anchoring the middle of my rotation. ...and then I traded them both away...
And I ended up with Hoffman. Of course it was the shell of Hoffman but he ended up in Madison nonetheless.
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LB Surfers 95-96
FL Pac Champs: 95

Madison Wolves 99-2039
JL MW: 99-2009, 17, 20, 21
JL WC: 12
JL: 01, 04, 09, 12
FL Heartland: 32
FL WC: 31, 33
BBA Champs: 04, 09

Portland Lumberjacks 2040-
FL Pacific: 50
FL WC: 49, 51
FL Champs: 49, 51

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