About the Starting Pitcher Conversion Reward

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aaronweiner
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About the Starting Pitcher Conversion Reward

Post by aaronweiner » Tue May 10, 2011 8:42 am

Quick link (full text at the end)

I remember someone saying about this particular bonus that "why would anyone do it?" I found myself coming to the same conclusion.

Most of it makes sense. Velocity would drop, endurance would rise marginally (and I definitely think 2 points is better than one, incidentally; one point is kind of a garbage raise), the third added pitch wouldn't be awesome and would be like a straight change or a forkball. All of that makes sense.

What doesn't make sense to me is why players would lose potential command of their pitches. ACTUAL command, well, I get that, they have to adjust to being a starting pitcher. But potential command? That seems dubious at best. As a result, a player needs to be a potential superstar reliever to begin with to make him a candidate to be worth the conversion.

So, I did a little work, and I've found players for whom it would or would have made sense to do this conversion. So they DO exist. However...

It took almost no time to compile (ten minutes), because there are just so few pitchers who fit the bill. Out of 4500 players, less than 1/10th of one percent, or 4, are a legal, slam-dunk choice for this conversion (criteria below). One of the four has a 11-month injury. And I set the bar remarkably low.


After the two-pitch limit, the 10 endurance level and the 25 year old age requirement, my criteria even for potential qualification:

1) The potential for both pitches must be at LEAST 8/7 (or 15-16 and 13-14) to drop both
2) The player needs to have enough movement (I used 5 potential, or 9/10 movement)...
3) And control (I used a meager 4 potential as the cutoff for control, or 7/8 control)


The ENTIRE list:

MBBA:

New Orleans' Robert Durst

And, also, two nonqualifiers due to age:

Madison's Justin Marco
Des Moines' Chris Anderson


Minor Leaguers:

AAA:

Nashville's Jorge Garcia (Madison, a good choice)

AA:

Newton's Zach Brown (Long Beach, easily the best choice)
(Newton's Miguel Diaz also qualifies, notably, but he's borderline.)

A:

Moline's (my) Josh Oliver (borderline)

and Two REALLY borderline guys...

Laramie's Terry Dumont
Folsom's Markus Allen

(but I would likely consider it with all three if their pitch ratings dropped but their potential ratings stayed the same.)

R:

Roswell's Paul Hogan (Vegas, a solid choice assuming he doesn't fall apart from a bad injury)



I hope this makes my point.

In my mind, there's an alternative to re-writing the rule, and that's to allow people to do this conversion for free, no PPT required, as long as the owner's in good standing.

Other ideas:

Definitely make the Endurance rating go up by two.

Decrease current pitch ratings by two levels or two points and keep potentials the same.

Decrease speed by three levels but keep all pitch ratings the same.

Any thoughts?



Subject: PP Reward: Starting Pitcher Conversion
recte44 wrote:Starting Pitcher Conversion:

Attempt to convert a young pitcher to a Starting Pitcher by adding a third pitch.

What it Costs:
1) A GM will spend 20 PP to use this reward, and can only use this reward on one player per season.

Who is Eligible:
1) Any pitcher with no MBBA experience, and who is 25 years of age or younger.
2) Any pitcher who currently has two or less pitches, and an Endurance of 10 or higher.
3) This player must not have had any specialization previously in his career.

How it Works:
1) In using this Reward, a GM will be able to add a third pitch of their choice to the pitchers arsenal.
2) New Pitch added will be a "4" potential, actual= 1/3 of potential total on 1-250 scale
3) Two existing pitches will be decreased by one point each on both their Actual and Potential levels
4) Velocity will be decreased two levels on the Velocity scale
5) Endurance will be increased by one point on the 1-20 scale

Example:
1) "Joe Hurler" is a current RP.
2) His current ratings are: Endurance= "11"; Fastball= "6" actual/ "8" potential; Curveball= "4" actual/ "7" potential; Velocity= "92-94".
3) His team chooses to use the "Starting Pitcher Conversion" Reward to attempt to convert him into a starting pitcher.
4) They choose to add a CU, which gets added at "4" potential, actual determined on 1-250 scale
5) Fastball was a "6" actual/ "8" potential; it becomes a "5" actual/ "7" potential
6) Curveball was a "4" actual/ "7" potential; it becomes a "3" actual/ "6" potential
7) Velocity was "92-94"; it becomes "90-92".
8) Endurance was an "11"; it becomes a "12".

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Re: About the Starting Pitcher Conversion Reward

Post by KCCardinalFan » Tue May 10, 2011 8:54 am

That was my plan with Hogan before I traded him. You make some good points, I'm curious to hear other's opinions.
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Re: About the Starting Pitcher Conversion Reward

Post by lynchy34 » Tue May 10, 2011 8:56 am

I should have made Anderson a starter. That was a bonehead lapse on my part.
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Re: About the Starting Pitcher Conversion Reward

Post by aaronweiner » Tue May 10, 2011 9:07 am

I also technically have to take Durst off my list since he has MBBA experience (another bar to this conversion, though I don't think it should be one).

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Re: About the Starting Pitcher Conversion Reward

Post by recte44 » Tue May 10, 2011 9:30 am

I did it with David Crocker, that worked out ok.

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Re: About the Starting Pitcher Conversion Reward

Post by aaronweiner » Tue May 10, 2011 9:52 am

He's another guy who fits my criteria to a T - a very good choice for it. Of course, he also gained extra points on his third pitch, which didn't hurt either.

But wouldn't it have been more worth the 20 points (slightly more than the minimum output for a year) if he'd gotten an extra point of endurance? Not to mention having potential pitch ratings in the nines?

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Re: About the Starting Pitcher Conversion Reward

Post by recte44 » Tue May 10, 2011 10:15 am

aaronweiner wrote:He's another guy who fits my criteria to a T - a very good choice for it. Of course, he also gained extra points on his third pitch, which didn't hurt either.

But wouldn't it have been more worth the 20 points (slightly more than the minimum output for a year) if he'd gotten an extra point of endurance? Not to mention having potential pitch ratings in the nines?
Aaron, I'm trying to avoid exactly what you're suggesting. I'm trying to avoid creating super players. Crocker is a nice player and the reward did him well. We're not trying to make Steve Nebraska for 20 points here.

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Re: About the Starting Pitcher Conversion Reward

Post by aaronweiner » Tue May 10, 2011 1:22 pm

I agree on some aspects, but isn't that why we drop the speed? Maybe we can keep the top pitch the same and drop the second two notches. Plus, I don't think a two point rise in endurance (we can cap it at 14 or whatever the guy already has, whichever's bigger) would be a huge issue. We could make the "actual" drop precipitous, say, 4 and 3 points for each of the two pitches while keeping the potentials the same. Or drop them half a level instead of a full level.

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Re: About the Starting Pitcher Conversion Reward

Post by jcrmoon42 » Wed May 11, 2011 11:11 pm

I don't have a problem with it as-is. It makes sense to me that taking the time to focus on a third pitch could cause you to put less time and energy into your first two pitches. You are taking a chance on the guy anyway.

If anything, I could see the endurance requirement being dropped to 6 or so, because those guys are still very much able to start.

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Re: About the Starting Pitcher Conversion Reward

Post by lynchy34 » Thu May 12, 2011 6:31 am

As much as I'd love to agree with you, Aaron, the game doesn't take too kindly to messing with it a ton. I love this as a reward as is, because it doesn't mess with the engine and make it too easy to create a bunch of super players. I'd love to get rid of the no MBBA experience requirement, but other than that, it works for me.
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Re: About the Starting Pitcher Conversion Reward

Post by aaronweiner » Thu May 12, 2011 7:12 am

Well, okay then. :)

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