Draft Pick Trading

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Draft Pick Trading

Post by agrudez » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:19 pm

With every star that gets traded, the returns get worse and worse and worse. This is not a good situation for a league that is interested in parity that - basically - the rich can pilfer from the poor on the trade market. I think part of the dichotomy was set up because of the poor drafts of recent past (at least that is when it all seemed to really start sliding down the slippery slope) because the general "buyer" teams (ie. good ones) just didn't have much to offer sellers and one or two atrocious deals set an expected market. If this presumption is correct, then the flooding of the market with some 1st/2nd round picks from buyer teams would go a long way in righting the market and giving seller teams some leg room to get better via the trade market - as opposed to simply just getting worse.
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Re: Draft Pick Trading

Post by Ted » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:29 pm

I don't know, man. I get your point that the returns have been on the weak side recently, but draft pick trading in a league with significant owner turnover always scares me. Look at the mess Havana was/is in. Imagine if Dee had been allowed to trade away picks as well.
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Re: Draft Pick Trading

Post by recte44 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:46 pm

Have always been against it, and always will be. Willing to test the waters with a league vote, though. 75% to approve.

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Re: Draft Pick Trading

Post by Lane » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:59 pm

Ted wrote:I don't know, man. I get your point that the returns have been on the weak side recently, but draft pick trading in a league with significant owner turnover always scares me. Look at the mess Havana was/is in. Imagine if Dee had been allowed to trade away picks as well.
This risk could be lessened somewhat by limiting traded picks to 1 year out.
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Re: Draft Pick Trading

Post by agrudez » Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:01 pm

Lane wrote:
Ted wrote:I don't know, man. I get your point that the returns have been on the weak side recently, but draft pick trading in a league with significant owner turnover always scares me. Look at the mess Havana was/is in. Imagine if Dee had been allowed to trade away picks as well.
This risk could be lessened somewhat by limiting traded picks to 1 year out.
Yeah, it needs a cap on the years to keep franchises from getting run into the ground by mismanagement. Only being able to trade picks from the next draft (ie. it resets once the ammy draft is completed) seems perfectly fine to me as a preventive measure.
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Re: Draft Pick Trading

Post by Ted » Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:04 pm

I'm against it in general, but in addition to limiting trading to only one year out or whatever, what about a "draft pick trading season". Like they can only be traded from June 1 to the deadline. Heats up in season trades, and keeps misguided teams who made a splashy offseason deal or two from mortgaging the future before they realize that one old free agent does not a champion make.
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Re: Draft Pick Trading

Post by Lane » Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:06 pm

Ted wrote:one old free agent does not a champion make.
Fred Hernandez disagrees.


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Re: Draft Pick Trading

Post by Edward Murphy » Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:16 pm

Kyle I agree with you about the poor draft pools. Lets spend the time getting better quality (and/or) quantity players for all teams.
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Re: Draft Pick Trading

Post by felipe » Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:27 pm

Ummm...I don't think it's Fred; it's probably the upgrades at catcher, outfield, pitching, first base, too

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Re: Draft Pick Trading

Post by Lane » Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:30 pm

felipe wrote:Ummm...I don't think it's Fred; it's probably the upgrades at catcher, outfield, pitching, first base, too
I was referring to an actual championship team, the 2029 LB Surfers.

Clearly he was the magic piece of the puzzle, since the Surfers are garbage this year.


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Re: Draft Pick Trading

Post by bschr682 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:25 pm

I actually think draft pick trading would make the situation Kyle is talking about even worse.
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Re: Draft Pick Trading

Post by agrudez » Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:23 pm

bschr682 wrote:I actually think draft pick trading would make the situation Kyle is talking about even worse.
How so?
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Re: Draft Pick Trading

Post by bschr682 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:31 pm

The haves trade off risky picks for actual players from the have nots. The gap widens. Sure some of the have nots on occasion will get a boost when they get lucky enough that the extra picks all develop but it wont be reliable and so as a whole I think it would be bad. Plus the whole cruddy team gets run completely into the ground leading to a revolving door of GM's.

Im not saying there are no pros to the idea but I think the cons far, far outweigh them.
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Re: Draft Pick Trading

Post by udlb58 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:55 am

I know this is dead in the water, but I do think a regulated pick trading 'season' would have merits in this league. A good portion of the talent in this league comes from bumps and international signings/scout finds, so even a team that annually trades away picks still has other avenues to get decent prospects (hell, I've developed a reasonable farm despite trading away the only 1st rounder who hasn't lumped on me).

Having a window for trading picks from All-Star Game to the Arbitration sim, with a limit of only picks from the next draft being tradeable, could make sense. You run the risk of a GM trading away 1st round pick after 1st round pick, but you can still have that happen by trading former 1st round pick after former 1st round pick.
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Re: Draft Pick Trading

Post by agrudez » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:09 am

bschr682 wrote:The haves trade off risky picks for actual players from the have nots. The gap widens. Sure some of the have nots on occasion will get a boost when they get lucky enough that the extra picks all develop but it wont be reliable and so as a whole I think it would be bad. Plus the whole cruddy team gets run completely into the ground leading to a revolving door of GM's.

Im not saying there are no pros to the idea but I think the cons far, far outweigh them.
Risky picks as opposed to useless prospects?

Sunshine was basically given away as a salary dump. You don't think Brooklyn would've loved to get a risky pick?

This is both empirical as well as subjective. Every time I talk trade with someone they try to get 3+ star MLers for 2 star prospects. It's supposed to be the other way around (unless you're talking about expensive geriatrics). It's because, imo, teams are jealously guarding half-way decent (and even often times below average) prospects because the bad drafts left their pools so barren. I draw this conclusion because it wasn't like this before the drafts started being that way. Sure, every once in awhile there was a head scratcher in the past, but at this point they are ALL headscratchers.

In the end this is simply not good for the league to continue with the status quo - so if you don't like this idea then I beseech you to think of another to fix the problem.
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Re: Draft Pick Trading

Post by indiansfan » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:35 am

Yep. Aging guys with terrible contracts aren't going to get much in return. Working as intended.
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Re: Draft Pick Trading

Post by udlb58 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:53 pm

agrudez wrote:
bschr682 wrote:The haves trade off risky picks for actual players from the have nots. The gap widens. Sure some of the have nots on occasion will get a boost when they get lucky enough that the extra picks all develop but it wont be reliable and so as a whole I think it would be bad. Plus the whole cruddy team gets run completely into the ground leading to a revolving door of GM's.

Im not saying there are no pros to the idea but I think the cons far, far outweigh them.
Risky picks as opposed to useless prospects?

Sunshine was basically given away as a salary dump. You don't think Brooklyn would've loved to get a risky pick?

This is both empirical as well as subjective. Every time I talk trade with someone they try to get 3+ star MLers for 2 star prospects. It's supposed to be the other way around (unless you're talking about expensive geriatrics). It's because, imo, teams are jealously guarding half-way decent (and even often times below average) prospects because the bad drafts left their pools so barren. I draw this conclusion because it wasn't like this before the drafts started being that way. Sure, every once in awhile there was a head scratcher in the past, but at this point they are ALL headscratchers.

In the end this is simply not good for the league to continue with the status quo - so if you don't like this idea then I beseech you to think of another to fix the problem.
Aren't Sunshine and Chip aging geriatrics? (both 34 with recent declines in ratings). Neither are in the OSA Top 20 Hitters/Pitchers anymore.

I do agree with adding pick trading though I don't know it will really have the same effect you hope it will. Trading of draft picks will just be another tool that a good GM will use well and a bad GM will use poorly. Unfortunately (fortunately?), bad GMs don't usually hang around to clean up a mess, so the majority of the teams in greatest need are subjected to the crapshoot of a new GM. So if one of those bad teams gets a good GM (which, I think we actually have landed on some pretty good GMs for the lesser teams in the league now), having the ability to rebuild through acquiring draft picks would be a good thing and maybe help them, but they are acquiring later round picks who aren't necessarily going to be any better than the prospects they can acquire. To me, the benefit of pick trading is that it would potentially open up more trading options for the rebuilding team as most teams would have draft picks, while only a few may have the need for the player and the prospects to make a deal.

Teams looking to offload big-contract, star players and not getting a monumental return isn't new to the league though. Remember when Greenville traded away superstar players Doug Glover and Martin Felix for LITERALLY NOTHING!? I wasn't in the league then, but I definitely felt the repercussions of that move taking over the gutted franchise Greenville wound up becoming.
Maybe a compromise could be just allowing the trading of recently drafted players :shrug:
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Re: Draft Pick Trading

Post by indiansfan » Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:02 pm

Yeah I would be more likely to allow the trading of recently drafted players than draft picks
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Re: Draft Pick Trading

Post by aaronweiner » Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:36 pm

Then it's a difference without a distinction. I like the system as we have it right now.

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Re: Draft Pick Trading

Post by indiansfan » Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:54 pm

I prefer to keep it the same but there is a distinction. Trading a player you have drafted is a trade made by the current GM. Trading picks left the current GM trade away things that the next GM doesn't get. Present vs future.
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