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Starting Pitcher Conversion Reward Suggestion

Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 1:29 pm
by aaronweiner
This was bumped in the other forum, and I'm glad, because I had some thoughts on this.

I'd like to make the following adjustment to the SP reward conversion:


We roll a 1d20 like we do with the foreign born age check.


1-4: Stamina does not increase, no new pitch, -20 on internal injury rating scale
5-12: Current reward: stamina increases one point, one new pitch, velocity decreases
13-16: Stamina increases one point, one new pitch, no velocity decrease
17-20: Stamina increases one point, one new pitch at 5, no velocity decrease

So you have a 20% chance of getting a viable starter, a 20% chance of getting no new pitch but a more durable reliever (think extra conditioning), and a 60% chance of getting basically the same reward.

Thoughts?

Re: Starting Pitcher Conversion Reward Suggestion

Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 1:35 pm
by bschr682
Seems too powerful to me.

Re: Starting Pitcher Conversion Reward Suggestion

Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 3:37 pm
by RonCo
I think the idea is fine...right now a SP conversion is fraught with huge danger, it seems to me.

I think there's an imbalance in the system right now in that there are ways to create improved pitchers, but not really anything to improve hitters or fielders. Some ideas:

Convert EYE -> AVK
Convert AVK -> EYE
Convert Powe/Gap -> Contact: (AVK and/or BABIP)
Convert Contact -> Power/Gap
Convert Power >> Speed (more likely to be successful)
Convert Speed -> Power (less likely to be successful)

Defense:
Convert Arm to Error, or visa versa (suggests one trains to throw harder at the risk of making more errors, or visa versa)
Convert Speed -> Arm (bulking up, could be tied to conv speed->Power)

Bunting:
Go to baserunning school -> Increase STEAL and BASERUNNING rating based on intelligence and SPEED?
Improve bunting -> Improve SAC Bunt based on EYE/AVK, and Bunt for hit based on INTELLIGENCE, EYE, and SPEED

There are more that could be done, I'm sure.

Re: Starting Pitcher Conversion Reward Suggestion

Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 6:11 pm
by recte44
Too much mad science, I fear- on the hitters.

OOTP is actually simulating converting pitchers to starters now, but its random.

Re: Starting Pitcher Conversion Reward Suggestion

Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:36 pm
by udlb58
recte44 wrote:Too much mad science, I fear- on the hitters.

OOTP is actually simulating converting pitchers to starters now, but its random.
And far more powerful than the reward.

What if it were:

1-3: Stamina does not increase, no new pitch, -20 on internal injury rating scale
4-13: Current reward: stamina increases one point, one new pitch, velocity decreases 2 'ticks'
14-17: Stamina increases one point, one new pitch, velocity decrease 1 'tick'
18-20: one new pitch at 5, velocity decrease 1 'tick'


Just some thoughts. In 5 seasons with the league, the SP conversion reward hasn't been used once. To me we either should kick around ideas to see how to make it a viable reward, or ditch it completely.

Re: Starting Pitcher Conversion Reward Suggestion

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:10 am
by Ted
I suggest no change. Here's why: RP conversions make sense as there are going to be a lot of failed multi pitch starters who, if they dropped their weaker pitches and threw harder, could succeed as relievers. This is very realistic. The current OOTP model of shifting position to a reliever simply doesn't "DO" enough to mimic real life.

But in real life, how often does a guy who has been in the pen his whole career somehow magically develop a pitch that lets him become a starter? This SHOULD happen a lot less, and almost never. The game does occasionally do this on its own, maybe not enough, but it does. An example is Paul Farrell (he's on one of the expansion teams now), who was a two pitch (well two and 2 rated change), with 9/6/6 ratings who suddenly bumped his changed to 8 and now looks like a 3 pitch starter. 10/6/6 lefty. But this should be very rare, mimicking real life. Just leave the reward as is or remove it entirely.

The only thing I would endorse about a change is a velo decrease to stam increase, as the OOTP model of pitchers with 10 stam versus 1 stam is just ridiculous. There simply isn't that big a variation in the number of pitches a guy can throw. All of these guys were starters at some level.

Re: Starting Pitcher Conversion Reward Suggestion

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:18 am
by bcslouck
I agree that is shouldn't be easy to go from RP to SP. Just doesn't happen very often.

My suggestion would if you want to make the SP Conversion more enticing, and make some of the changes suggested above, we set a really young age limit. Like Ted said, how often does a guy who's been in pen for years make that leap to a good SP. But, most teams do try to make guys SP's if it's viable first. I'd suggest if any changes are made to make it "easier", then you should also limit the amount of players who can get that conversion by changing the age limit from 25 to, lets say, 20.

Re: Starting Pitcher Conversion Reward Suggestion

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:07 am
by udlb58
Ted wrote: The only thing I would endorse about a change is a velo decrease to stam increase, as the OOTP model of pitchers with 10 stam versus 1 stam is just ridiculous. There simply isn't that big a variation in the number of pitches a guy can throw. All of these guys were starters at some level.
That would be interesting and might be the way to go with the SP conversion award. Instead of adding a 3rd pitch, giving the ability to convert velo into stamina to make a 2 or 3 stamina reliever with enough pitches capable of starting. It would have to be a pretty big velo hit though, and you might need to have an age and service limit like the position focus one (usually once guys are closers in the majors in real life, they are never used as starters again).

Re: Starting Pitcher Conversion Reward Suggestion

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:34 am
by agrudez
bschr682 wrote:Seems too powerful to me.
Way too powerful, imo. Every great reliever prospect is going to at least try for the 17-20 with this proposal since there is no reason not to (the other rolls don't really negatively impact). So we essentially are just pushing 20% of all our elite relief prospects into starting pitching prospects.