A Plea to Change the ASG Roster Format

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Re: A Plea to Change the ASG Roster Format

Post by Ted » Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:54 am

Here's another way to look at it. Look at how cut and dry most of the votes ares for positions. When we are only picking 19 players. Usually 3:1 or better. Very little controversy there. With a smaller roster, you take the vote winners, and the 11 players who got the second most votes. (9 position players and one SP and one RP, or some variation on that, depending on who is most deserving). That's what happens with a 30 man roster.

Make the roster bigger (35 like it is now), and now you're tying to decide between which of the 11 third place vote getters you take with your remaining five spots. That's MORE controversy with a bigger roster.

The roster size/controversy issue is separate from being forced to take players who don't belong on a team and leave of someone deserving.
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Re: A Plea to Change the ASG Roster Format

Post by recte44 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:15 am

I think it's more than fine to have one rep per team, this is usually 3-4 players per season per league, and now there's FIVE extra spots.

This is a non-issue.

#RECTEHASSPOKEN
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Re: A Plea to Change the ASG Roster Format

Post by Ted » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:26 am

recte44 wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:15 am
I think it's more than fine to have one rep per team, this is usually 3-4 players per season per league, and now there's FIVE extra spots.

This is a non-issue.

#RECTEHASSPOKEN
Your may be the commish, but sorry, you don't get to tell me I can't have an opinion about something. You can say you won't do anything, and that it's not that important. Or that you don't care. But you don't get to decide what is and is not an issue.
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Re: A Plea to Change the ASG Roster Format

Post by Bumstead » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:34 am

35 players and only required to have 1 player per team? I was happy last season in Boise that good 'ole Frenchy got to go to the All Star game and represent our horrible team. I agree with Recte on this one. I just like it that way and I'm not going to care if a Boise player gets added and a California player gets left off because of it...I'll probably sleep better if that happens...

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Re: A Plea to Change the ASG Roster Format

Post by recte44 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:36 pm

Ted wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:26 am
recte44 wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:15 am
I think it's more than fine to have one rep per team, this is usually 3-4 players per season per league, and now there's FIVE extra spots.

This is a non-issue.

#RECTEHASSPOKEN
Your may be the commish, but sorry, you don't get to tell me I can't have an opinion about something. You can say you won't do anything, and that it's not that important. Or that you don't care. But you don't get to decide what is and is not an issue.
Fine, Ted. I'm starting a poll.
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Re: A Plea to Change the ASG Roster Format

Post by Ted » Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:59 pm

recte44 wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:36 pm
Ted wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:26 am
recte44 wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:15 am
I think it's more than fine to have one rep per team, this is usually 3-4 players per season per league, and now there's FIVE extra spots.

This is a non-issue.

#RECTEHASSPOKEN
Your may be the commish, but sorry, you don't get to tell me I can't have an opinion about something. You can say you won't do anything, and that it's not that important. Or that you don't care. But you don't get to decide what is and is not an issue.
Fine, Ted. I'm starting a poll.
Recte, we just stink at communicating with each other. If you had said, "There is a lot to do in the league. I don't think this is that important. Can we move on?" Or "Ted you complain about too many things. Is this really that big of a deal?" I'd have been fine. It's being told something I care about isn't an issue that annoyed me. I think this could work better. You think it works well enough. That's cool. I'm guessing most people don't give a shit based on the responses in this thread. There definitely isn't a consensus to move one way or another.

But being told that something you think isn't working is a "non-issue" is kind of irksome.
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Re: A Plea to Change the ASG Roster Format

Post by recte44 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:09 pm

Sorry- I'm getting very perturbed with seemingly every MINOR detail turning into a huge debate about changing shit lately.

But for shits and grins, I took a look at my team and yours. Even with a 35 man roster, here are the snubs:

CAL:
- Defazio could have made it, but there were at least 2 and probably 3 better options at 2B in the FL this year.
- Ramos is pitching very well, but he's no better than the third best pitcher on your team right now.
- I personally think Alfredo Martinez has the best case of the three players I'd consider "snubs" on your team. Stacked OF in the FL though.

LV:
- Wayne Muirhead and Javier Garcia should have both been considered as relievers, but the voting populace seems to overlook non-closers the majority of the time.
- No Shawn Huber either? The third best pen in the JL and none of our relievers made it. Hmmm.
- Carlos Camacho certainly had a case, but I'm not upset he didn't make it. There were better choices.
- Same with Rectenberg. A lot of voters look at WAR and ignore everything else. That hurts guys who hit but are defensive liabilities like Henry R.
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Re: A Plea to Change the ASG Roster Format

Post by Ted » Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:36 pm

recte44 wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:09 pm
Sorry- I'm getting very perturbed with seemingly every MINOR detail turning into a huge debate about changing shit lately.

But for shits and grins, I took a look at my team and yours. Even with a 35 man roster, here are the snubs:

CAL:
- Defazio could have made it, but there were at least 2 and probably 3 better options at 2B in the FL this year.
- Ramos is pitching very well, but he's no better than the third best pitcher on your team right now.
- I personally think Alfredo Martinez has the best case of the three players I'd consider "snubs" on your team. Stacked OF in the FL though.

LV:
- Wayne Muirhead and Javier Garcia should have both been considered as relievers, but the voting populace seems to overlook non-closers the majority of the time.
- No Shawn Huber either? The third best pen in the JL and none of our relievers made it. Hmmm.
- Carlos Camacho certainly had a case, but I'm not upset he didn't make it. There were better choices.
- Same with Rectenberg. A lot of voters look at WAR and ignore everything else. That hurts guys who hit but are defensive liabilities like Henry R.
If you think I made this post at all about my players being snubbed, you've misinterpreted me, or I was unclear. I am happy with the rosters you selected given the rules. I don't like having to take worse players because of an arbitrary rule. I did not know that it actually improves player popularity. That's actually a solid reason to keep the rule as is.

You're making my point. If we raised the bar, none of those guys are snubs. Expanding rosters makes more snubs, not less snubs. That's because there are fewer elite players than great players,and fewer great players than good players.

There might be compromise. Do you have to select all 35 players? Can you set the roster size at 35, but act as though it's really 30? The GM selecting the reserves can designate players who are "team rep only" and not count them against the 30 limit? (but use the actual roster size of 35 to put them in). So the all star roster is actually variable from 30-35 depending on how many team reps are taking up those last five spots?
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Re: A Plea to Change the ASG Roster Format

Post by recte44 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:00 pm

Unfortunately you can't- I have discovered that when the # of players on the roster does not exactly match the setting for All-Star Game Roster Size that's when players disappear and other weirdness that we've seen happen with all-star games.
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Re: A Plea to Change the ASG Roster Format

Post by RonCo » Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:15 pm

We could always just select the All-Stars by just taking the 20/80 overall ratings of all players regardless of any performance. That makes it simple, right? Guarantees the 30, or 35, or 40 best players go in.

To me, the All-Star game is purely fun, and the lower number with one guaranteed participant is just fun. So, although my view is lukewarm, I don't see a big deal. In fact, it could probably be argued that--personally...for me only--the snubs and the marginal guys who get in because of the lack of talent on their rosters are the majority of the fun. Per the latest poll Matt posted, that seems like a common view, or at least parts of it.

Some folks don't find my version of the fun as fun, though.

Meh.

I don't think there's any right or wrong. So at the end of the day, I'll have fun with it regardless.
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Re: A Plea to Change the ASG Roster Format

Post by recte44 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:57 pm

Yes, we could use a mathematical formula to choose the All-Stars, eliminate voting altogether. That way it's always fair.

We could also incorporate a mathematical equation to ensure all trades are fair, something similar to a NFL Draft Pick Trade Value Chart. That way the human element will be completely taken away from trades.
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Re: A Plea to Change the ASG Roster Format

Post by RonCo » Fri Apr 26, 2019 3:39 pm

:bowtie:
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Re: A Plea to Change the ASG Roster Format

Post by Ted » Fri Apr 26, 2019 3:49 pm

THank you both for mocking my concerns. very well done. Definitely makes a guy want to stay. Good GB work.
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Re: A Plea to Change the ASG Roster Format

Post by RonCo » Fri Apr 26, 2019 3:51 pm

My apologies Ted.
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