2039, Sim #18 Chatter

[RonCo]

My counter to the service time argument is that if they struggle early then it keeps the arb numbers lower and more manageable.

I don't think this is actually true as long as they pick up the pace in year 2+. But that's a valid scenario.

[RonCo]

I think it depends on the timing of when they are ready. If its June and the kid is ready probably not wise to delay until the 3rd week of April the following year. If its opening day the kid is ready I will always make him wait a couple weeks because I want that extra year in their prime rather than the first 2 weeks of their rookie season.

For example Kevin Mackeith was brought up the last week of the season in 2037 and when I took over he had 7 service days and his clock started which made absolutely no sense to me. Why waste 7 days when your out of the playoffs? I had to make him play 25 games in AAA in 2038 to get his clock correct so I could get that 7th year and I am so glad I did this.

If a kid is ready, he's ready. I don't like bringing prospects up who aren't developed pretty much their ratings, though. And if they're ready in May or June, I'll probably wait until late July or so to keep him out of super-2 if I can manage it. That very much depends on team need, though. I've made different decisions on different players at different times.

Which is my point, really. As a GM, there's a fairly simple mathematical trade off. As a manager of OOTP's development model, it's a bit of a crap shoot. But unless you're talking holding someone back a long time, my general experience with development is that I don't think OOTP players who are ready will crash and burn particularly rapidly if left in the minors for a little while. But it's all how you view probability in the end.

[RonCo]

By "aren't developed to their ratings," I don't mean they're off a point or two. I mean that it's clear they aren't close to peak in most areas. We have several kids up right now who are clearly not ready. I could be wrong, but I think it's far more likely to flat-line or at least stall a career by bringing kids up when it's too early than it is to do so by leaving them stew a little more than necessary.

[ae37jr]

Just for the record, even though I'm on the other side of the fence at the moment, I'm a big believer in going for it and trying to win games at the BBA level. I'm also not a believer in holding up players to save a buck. One of the main example I was talking about is José Ramos. His 8/10/8/5/5 line against RHP would help me in my next week in right field bandbox parks. But he is just 18 and still has 6 more points to grow into. I could call him up now and he'd do ok. If I knew I had a legit shot at the playoffs I'd probably be more inclined to do so. But I'd rather keep him in the minors to fill out and get more defense experience(being eligible for fall league too).

[RonCo]

Yeah...I'm blabbering too much...but as my own example, I left Dong-po Thum down last year, not because of service time, but because he was down points in Contact, Power, and Eye. I decided to play him this year because he picked up the Eye. He's still down a touch in contact and power, but I'm figuring power won't come until he's 22ish or so.

He clearly was "ready" in the idea that he could have done well in the majors last year, though. You could argue he was my best player at 3B. But I had good players in all his positions, and we were good enough to win 99 games. Why take a chance stalling his development by pressing him into service.

The counter to my view is that we lost in the post season again. If you think Dong-po would have made a difference I could go there...but Alejandro Rodriguez (my 3B of the time, which is where I would have played Thum) hit three homers and .333 in the post season, and Rob Thomas, my other 3B, held serve. I can't really see that Thum's absence caused us any issues whatsoever.

[RonCo]

Just for the record, even though I'm on the other side of the fence at the moment, I'm a big believer in going for it and trying to win games at the BBA level. I'm also not a believer in holding up players to save a buck. One of the main example I was talking about is José Ramos. His 8/10/8/5/5 line against RHP would help me in my next week in right field bandbox parks. But he is just 18 and still has 6 more points to grow into. I could call him up now and he'd do ok. If I knew I had a legit shot at the playoffs I'd probably be more inclined to do so. But I'd rather keep him in the minors to fill out and get more defense experience(being eligible for fall league too).

Sometimes I feel like I'm the poster boy for service time manipulation because I'll argue the merits of it. But to be clear, yes, I have also often burned years "early" because they fit the need of the team. J. J McQuade was up a bit early. Earl Jackson came up early. Dimiao Laqui came up early and his development stopped--but his performance was at least okay. and I needed him. There are others.

In Brooklyn's case, if Ramos makes the difference in a playoff appearance and not making it, then the equation is fully balanced toward calling him up.

[RonCo]

My counter to the service time argument is that if they struggle early then it keeps the arb numbers lower and more manageable.

EDIT: I should say I am historically one of the more aggressive when it comes to promotion.

The other counter to your counter is that depending on when you bring them up, you can make them eligible for super-two, and then it gets really pricey really quick. This is what happened in the case of Crash LaLoosh.

[bschr682]

Sigh... I hate it when Stever is right...

[crobillard]

I bring players up when I get the little green arrow and I like them

[GoldenOne]

I bring players up when I get the little green arrow and I like them

Its like the game is giving you a hint that they are ready to be moved up (or need to be moved down.)

[udlb58]

I bring players up when I get the little green arrow and I like them

Its like the game is giving you a hint that they are ready to be moved up (or need to be moved down.)

When the game gives me those arrows, I say "fuck you Jobu, I do it myself."

[GoldenOne]

I bring players up when I get the little green arrow and I like them

Its like the game is giving you a hint that they are ready to be moved up (or need to be moved down.)

When the game gives me those arrows, I say "fuck you Jobu, I do it myself."

Trust but confirm...