Hidden Players

[RonCo]

But I will say that the OOTP development engine is set up, and the BBA environment, too, with an eye toward GMs managing their organizations along similar lines as a real GM would.

The part of that statement that doesn't hold much water is that OOTP online GM's don't manage their minors like a real GM would....Online GM's sell off their entire team all in one season and accumulate a bulk of prospects all at the same level...I mean, we aren't close to managing our organizations like a real GM...we are playing a video game and complicating it because we have some idealistic idea that we are managing our organizations like a real GM would...

I'll move on. It's the same conversation and the same response in every league that ignores the reality of how online GM's actually manage their organizations. I'll go back to Boise where nobody ever managed the organization and continue repairing it my way (very unlike a real GM).

Edit: probably more like a real GM, since I can't make any trades.

I don't mean to be argumentative. Real GMs hold fire sales sometimes, too. Just like OOTP GMs.

What most OOTP GMs don't do is get paid to deal with their teams full time. So I'm totally sympathetic to the concerns about time and interest. But if you're an OOTP GM and you fill up one level with great prospects, you still need to find them playing time whether you're managing 200 players or 50. What I'm really hearing you say is that you don't want to be bothered with a bunch of 20-potential guys. So, yeah, just set the game to have your assistant do that, and lock the prospects you want to manage into the places you want them to be in. That way, you manage guys you consider real prospects, and the game keeps the organization staffed such that your real prospects don't get burned out by throwing 250 innings at 18 years old.

Seems like he best way for you.

[udlb58]

I just want to point out that filling out your minor league rosters is far from pointless in this league (probably because of people who have the same opinion as Jeff). I've had over 20 players who I acquired via Minor League Free agency (most during the season even) that have had an impact on my roster over the past 10-12 seasons.

Some who became key contributors as youngsters (Markert, Nunez, Cardenas to name a few); others who were traded for guys who became contributors (Bullard turning into Soliz and Ortiz being a part of the Grady deal being the most recent examples) and vets signed, usually mid-season, to bolster AAA depth and fill out the back of the roster if they play well (Urdiano and his 100 solid relief outings, Durand throwing 30 innings in the stretch run of our 33 title, Acevedo's great story, up to Willard this year)

[recte44]

I just want to point out that filling out your minor league rosters is far from pointless in this league (probably because of people who have the same opinion as Jeff). I've had over 20 players who I acquired via Minor League Free agency (most during the season even) that have had an impact on my roster over the past 10-12 seasons.

Some who became key contributors as youngsters (Markert, Nunez, Cardenas to name a few); others who were traded for guys who became contributors (Bullard turning into Soliz and Ortiz being a part of the Grady deal being the most recent examples) and vets signed, usually mid-season, to bolster AAA depth and fill out the back of the roster if they play well (Urdiano and his 100 solid relief outings, Durand throwing 30 innings in the stretch run of our 33 title, Acevedo's great story, up to Willard this year)

Amen. If minor league management seems too much for you then you're just hurting your organization. Like Tyler, I can list hundreds of guys over the years who I've picked up as minor league "filler" who have emerged as players for me.

[Bumstead]

I like to manage my own organization. I appreciate that you want to spend time rifling through free agent trash and hope someone bumps. I don't have time for it. So, not using my rotation as a 5-man rotation, strict order, is hurting my players for no reason whatsoever. If I cut all the guys that were never going to make it to AA (beyond a gift promotion) then I probably would have less than 100 players in my organization. My prospects shouldn't get trashed because I don't have 6 hours a week to spend on a video game. But, I know we have a core group in the league that we are satisfying with this particular rule of not allowing Jim Unknown to play...I don't see the harm in Jim Unknown, but then again I don't strive for minor league championships.

[RonCo]

I like to manage my own organization. I appreciate that you want to spend time rifling through free agent trash and hope someone bumps. I don't have time for it. So, not using my rotation as a 5-man rotation, strict order, is hurting my players for no reason whatsoever. If I cut all the guys that were never going to make it to AA (beyond a gift promotion) then I probably would have less than 100 players in my organization. My prospects shouldn't get trashed because I don't have 6 hours a week to spend on a video game. But, I know we have a core group in the league that we are satisfying with this particular rule of not allowing Jim Unknown to play...I don't see the harm in Jim Unknown, but then again I don't strive for minor league championships.

The answer for you (and anyone else who doesn't want to manage that deep) seems to be:

1) Assign minor league management to your assistant GM
2) "Lock" the 20-50 guys you actually care about into levels so you can promote or not as you want them to.

Am I missing something?

[Bumstead]

I like to manage my own organization. I appreciate that you want to spend time rifling through free agent trash and hope someone bumps. I don't have time for it. So, not using my rotation as a 5-man rotation, strict order, is hurting my players for no reason whatsoever. If I cut all the guys that were never going to make it to AA (beyond a gift promotion) then I probably would have less than 100 players in my organization. My prospects shouldn't get trashed because I don't have 6 hours a week to spend on a video game. But, I know we have a core group in the league that we are satisfying with this particular rule of not allowing Jim Unknown to play...I don't see the harm in Jim Unknown, but then again I don't strive for minor league championships.

The answer for you (and anyone else who doesn't want to manage that deep) seems to be:

1) Assign minor league management to your assistant GM
2) "Lock" the 20-50 guys you actually care about into levels so you can promote or not as you want them to.

Am I missing something?

1) No. I want to manage my minors as I see fit. I respect that you have an opinion on how I should manage them, but it's my organization. My team shouldn't be penalized because I don't go out and sign future-less minor leaguers with all my spare time.

2) I can do that, but then they get overused in an unrealistic way by the AI.

You are missing that it is my organization, not your's to decide how it is run. The GB is missing that there are GM's that aren't interested in spending hours filling and over-managing their minor league teams. Jim Unknown works just fine in on-line leagues. If you find him offensive then I am all for not allowing my minor league teams to compete in the playoffs. Allowing the AI to manage anymore of my minor league system will just lead to a trash-fest in my minor leagues...which I already have too much of.

[udlb58]

1) No. I want to manage my minors as I see fit. I respect that you have an opinion on how I should manage them, but it's my organization. My team shouldn't be penalized because I don't go out and sign future-less minor leaguers with all my spare time.

2) I can do that, but then they get overused in an unrealistic way by the AI.

You are missing that it is my organization, not your's to decide how it is run. The GB is missing that there are GM's that aren't interested in spending hours filling and over-managing their minor league teams. Jim Unknown works just fine in on-line leagues. If you find him offensive then I am all for not allowing my minor league teams to compete in the playoffs. Allowing the AI to manage anymore of my minor league system will just lead to a trash-fest in my minor leagues...which I already have too much of.

I'm seriously confused here. You want to run the minors the way you want, but you don't want to take the time to run the minors? It isn't that difficult to fill out proper minor league teams, the requisite talent is just sitting out there, even now. If you don't like spending a bunch of time, just sort by whatever category you feel is most important for a position and sign the top X number of players you need to fill out the org. Rinse-repeat for SP/RP/C/IF/OF and you have a full minors. Fill out a 4 or 5 man rotation (or ask the manager to assign). Presto, your minors are full. Now, go to the free agent screen and make sure to select the 'offer minor league extensions to all pending minor league free agents' option to keep the vast majority for next year (then you probably won't need to sign anyone at all once the drafted players come in).

You make it sound like it takes hours and hours combing through the scrap heap for diamonds in the rough. I don't and I don't have that kind of time either (see my TN page). Usually, I offer a bunch of minor league deals to guys who are willing to take them at the beginning of FA, then around the end of the offseason, I'll spend 15-30 minutes picking up some AAAA players for depth, and again in June(ish) I'll see if there are any FA vets who jump out (usually 5-10 min), and finally I'll check again around August to see if any guys are out there that I could sign to potentially keep for next year (again 5-10 min). Outside of that, I spend very little time on my minors. I have my manager set everything and just make adjustments where I see fit, and do fuck-all after that. Besides the call-up for the prospects who are doing well. As far as minor league busy work (managing the roster), I'm sure you are spending about as much (if not more) time on it than I am.

[recte44]

1) No. I want to manage my minors as I see fit. I respect that you have an opinion on how I should manage them, but it's my organization. My team shouldn't be penalized because I don't go out and sign future-less minor leaguers with all my spare time.

2) I can do that, but then they get overused in an unrealistic way by the AI.

You are missing that it is my organization, not your's to decide how it is run. The GB is missing that there are GM's that aren't interested in spending hours filling and over-managing their minor league teams. Jim Unknown works just fine in on-line leagues. If you find him offensive then I am all for not allowing my minor league teams to compete in the playoffs. Allowing the AI to manage anymore of my minor league system will just lead to a trash-fest in my minor leagues...which I already have too much of.

I'm seriously confused here. You want to run the minors the way you want, but you don't want to take the time to run the minors? It isn't that difficult to fill out proper minor league teams, the requisite talent is just sitting out there, even now. If you don't like spending a bunch of time, just sort by whatever category you feel is most important for a position and sign the top X number of players you need to fill out the org. Rinse-repeat for SP/RP/C/IF/OF and you have a full minors. Fill out a 4 or 5 man rotation (or ask the manager to assign). Presto, your minors are full. Now, go to the free agent screen and make sure to select the 'offer minor league extensions to all pending minor league free agents' option to keep the vast majority for next year (then you probably won't need to sign anyone at all once the drafted players come in).

You make it sound like it takes hours and hours combing through the scrap heap for diamonds in the rough. I don't and I don't have that kind of time either (see my TN page). Usually, I offer a bunch of minor league deals to guys who are willing to take them at the beginning of FA, then around the end of the offseason, I'll spend 15-30 minutes picking up some AAAA players for depth, and again in June(ish) I'll see if there are any FA vets who jump out (usually 5-10 min), and finally I'll check again around August to see if any guys are out there that I could sign to potentially keep for next year (again 5-10 min). Outside of that, I spend very little time on my minors. I have my manager set everything and just make adjustments where I see fit, and do fuck-all after that. Besides the call-up for the prospects who are doing well. As far as minor league busy work (managing the roster), I'm sure you are spending about as much (if not more) time on it than I am.

Agreed, all good points. Maybe I'm hearing Jeff wrong, but from what I'm hearing it sounds like he wants full control of everything but isn't willing to put in the effort it takes to reap the benefits of a full functioning league.

And as for Joe Unknowns, they are the scurge of a league. In fact they took down a league before and Jeff knows this.

[Bumstead]

True enough, I'm not explaining myself properly. I thought I posted a reply with a better explanation but I didn't. I had moved on from this, so...basically an OOTP GM that has a fire sale generally dumps everything, while a MLB GM that has a fire sale does not dump to the same extent. So, the OOTP GM ends up with a ton of prospects at the same level. With roster limits, this can cause an issue with proper development due to the need to have to promote too soon or hold back too long because of the roster limits. That's the main issue I have with the roster limits/requirements. Basically, teams end up needing to have too many prospects at one level and not enough at another. Plus, I find it frustrating to just carry around a bunch of worthless minor league trash that even if they bumped, they would be terrible. Maybe, making the roster size limits larger would provide some help. Just a thought...

[recte44]

They are already larger than mlb levels. Make them larger, now we’re back to the player bloat issue again.

[Bumstead]

They are already larger than mlb levels. Make them larger, now we’re back to the player bloat issue again.

I hear you...What about just expanding R/SA/A by 5? Leave AAA/AA alone as that is rarely the levels with the issue. I will conform eventually. It's mainly a time issue at the moment.

[recte44]

You need Rookie to be larger than 35????

[Bumstead]

You need Rookie to be larger than 35????

I just looked at my other 2 leagues and I have 80 in R in one league and 50 in R in the other....That's not what your's looks like???

[RonCo]

It must be nice to have 80 great prospects all at one level. Or 50, for that matter.

[RonCo]

...I don't have that kind of time either (see my TN page).

Foot semi-tapping.

[Bumstead]

It must be nice to have 80 great prospects all at one level. Or 50, for that matter.

I sensed sarcasm and chose to ignore it...

Edit: On a side note, we do have openings in both leagues if you would like to dip your toe into another league with me. First come, first served. I know there could be a rush...

[recte44]

You need Rookie to be larger than 35????

I just looked at my other 2 leagues and I have 80 in R in one league and 50 in R in the other....That's not what your's looks like???

No, that’s ridiculous and unrealistic.

[Bumstead]

You need Rookie to be larger than 35????

I just looked at my other 2 leagues and I have 80 in R in one league and 50 in R in the other....That's not what your's looks like???

No, that’s ridiculous and unrealistic.

Since you walked right into the door: Then if fits right in with OOTP!