Buyout question

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Buyout question

Post by usnspecialist » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:47 pm

If I am trying to buy someone out that has a player option after team option, is there any reason the player option would be included in Buyout? The price it is telling me doesn't make sense otherwise (it is Arthur Norris for 44m), but that doesn't seem right.
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Re: Buyout question

Post by RonCo » Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:08 pm

I'm not 100% sure, but if it does, kudos on OOTP. If that happens, then I'm a lot less bothered by PO after TO.
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Re: Buyout question

Post by bcslouck » Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:55 am

usnspecialist wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:47 pm
If I am trying to buy someone out that has a player option after team option, is there any reason the player option would be included in Buyout? The price it is telling me doesn't make sense otherwise (it is Arthur Norris for 44m), but that doesn't seem right.
If you want to release him now, it's should be the rest of 2038 and 2039 salaries, 2040 buyout, and 2041 salary. What is the 2040 buyout for? 2039 plus 2041 puts it at $34.5M.
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Re: Buyout question

Post by usnspecialist » Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:04 am

bcslouck wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:55 am
usnspecialist wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:47 pm
If I am trying to buy someone out that has a player option after team option, is there any reason the player option would be included in Buyout? The price it is telling me doesn't make sense otherwise (it is Arthur Norris for 44m), but that doesn't seem right.
If you want to release him now, it's should be the rest of 2038 and 2039 salaries, 2040 buyout, and 2041 salary. What is the 2040 buyout for? 2039 plus 2041 puts it at $34.5M.
3m

EDIT: that would make sense given that I probably owe him about 7 for the rest of this year.
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Re: Buyout question

Post by bcslouck » Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:13 am

Yeah, so it looks like you do pay that out. Which makes sense since you aren't giving the player his option anymore.
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Re: Buyout question

Post by RonCo » Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:59 am

Interesting.
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Re: Buyout question

Post by GoldenOne » Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:12 am

No, that doesnt make sense. If you buy out the Team Option in 2040, there is no Player Option in 2041.
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Re: Buyout question

Post by bcslouck » Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:26 am

GoldenOne wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:12 am
No, that doesnt make sense. If you buy out the Team Option in 2040, there is no Player Option in 2041.
It does make sense. It's called a player option. By buying out the team option before the player option year, you are not giving the player is own option. So you have to pay him out. The team option pays the buyout and the player option pays the salary the player could of opted into.
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Re: Buyout question

Post by RonCo » Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:34 am

There's logic either way, but it's certainly proper if your'e buying out the contract you're buying out the player option. It insures against bad faith offers. :)

Very happy to hear this.
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Re: Buyout question

Post by Bumstead » Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:18 am

There should never be a team option 1 year followed by a player option...the league allows that? C'mon...

Honestly, offering a contract with a team option followed by a player option is a bad faith offer from the beginning. It's an offer that appears to add value for the fake player, but is really a game played against the programming rather a baseball management decision.

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Re: Buyout question

Post by bcslouck » Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:54 am

Bumstead wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:18 am
There should never be a team option 1 year followed by a player option...the league allows that? C'mon...

Honestly, offering a contract with a team option followed by a player option is a bad faith offer from the beginning. It's an offer that appears to add value for the fake player, but is really a game played against the programming rather a baseball management decision.
Yeah I get your point but I think it used to be an issue in OOTP that isn't now. That is a toggle in S+ on the illegal contract checklist. I still think we need a mandatory minimum on team options. That doesn't have anything to do with this. Just contract talk. But S+ has made tracking contracts WAY easier.
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Re: Buyout question

Post by bcslouck » Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:55 am

He's also asking because he traded for him. He didn't sign the player originally. I don't think Randy generally gives any sort of player options or opt-outs.
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Re: Buyout question

Post by RonCo » Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:07 pm

Yes, if a team has to pay the full player option to cut him, then the Player Option is a good faith offer. Also, yes, this isn't how the game used to work. At one point I would certainly have been good with putting a rule in to administer player options after team options. But if a team has to pay for both those options, then the administrative overhead isn't worth it. IMHO, anyway.

We do have a mandatory minimum on buy-outs of 20%. So I think this is pretty solid overall. Much, much better than it once was.
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Re: Buyout question

Post by usnspecialist » Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:16 pm

bcslouck wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:55 am
He's also asking because he traded for him. He didn't sign the player originally. I don't think Randy generally gives any sort of player options or opt-outs.
you are correct, Norris was the zeitler tax.
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Re: Buyout question

Post by bcslouck » Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:24 pm

RonCo wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:07 pm
We do have a mandatory minimum on buy-outs of 20%. So I think this is pretty solid overall. Much, much better than it once was.
When was that implemented? I didn't know we had one. I feel like we didn't at one point so I must of missed it. I usually do 25%. 20% works for sure though.
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Re: Buyout question

Post by RonCo » Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:32 pm

I know it's been awhile. If you offer a Team Option too low, it requires it. Here's the image of our game settings Matt's posted:download/file.php?id=870&mode=view
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Re: Buyout question

Post by Ted » Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:42 pm

Bumstead wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:18 am
There should never be a team option 1 year followed by a player option...the league allows that? C'mon...

Honestly, offering a contract with a team option followed by a player option is a bad faith offer from the beginning. It's an offer that appears to add value for the fake player, but is really a game played against the programming rather a baseball management decision.
Been on this for years. Preach brotha!

To the point of this conversation, I'm glad OOTP has fixed it for buyouts, but you can still not execute the team option and get off scot free from the PO commitment. That's still a bad faith offer and shouldn't be allowed. OOTP doesn't seem to have the analysis capacity to know that the PO is basically not money they will get.

Sorry Recte. Not trying to rake muck. This isn't critical.
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Re: Buyout question

Post by RonCo » Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:27 pm

Ted wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:42 pm
Bumstead wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:18 am
There should never be a team option 1 year followed by a player option...the league allows that? C'mon...

Honestly, offering a contract with a team option followed by a player option is a bad faith offer from the beginning. It's an offer that appears to add value for the fake player, but is really a game played against the programming rather a baseball management decision.
Been on this for years. Preach brotha!

To the point of this conversation, I'm glad OOTP has fixed it for buyouts, but you can still not execute the team option and get off scot free from the PO commitment. That's still a bad faith offer and shouldn't be allowed. OOTP doesn't seem to have the analysis capacity to know that the PO is basically not money they will get.

Sorry Recte. Not trying to rake muck. This isn't critical.
If what Randy is saying here is true, then you're still on the hook for the PO.
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Re: Buyout question

Post by Ted » Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:34 pm

RonCo wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:27 pm
Ted wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:42 pm
Bumstead wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:18 am
There should never be a team option 1 year followed by a player option...the league allows that? C'mon...

Honestly, offering a contract with a team option followed by a player option is a bad faith offer from the beginning. It's an offer that appears to add value for the fake player, but is really a game played against the programming rather a baseball management decision.
Been on this for years. Preach brotha!

To the point of this conversation, I'm glad OOTP has fixed it for buyouts, but you can still not execute the team option and get off scot free from the PO commitment. That's still a bad faith offer and shouldn't be allowed. OOTP doesn't seem to have the analysis capacity to know that the PO is basically not money they will get.

Sorry Recte. Not trying to rake muck. This isn't critical.
If what Randy is saying here is true, then you're still on the hook for the PO.
Even if you are just declining a TO and paying the TO buyout? I thought Randy was just talking about the entire contract.
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Re: Buyout question

Post by bcslouck » Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:37 pm

What Randy is saying is different what Ted is saying. Ted is saying if he gets to the TO option and declines it, the PO is voided. Which is bad too. Randy just wants to cut bait now.
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