A Few Questions Of Import

[Ted]

Does this governing body of this league accept that the way people treat each other is in fact, not limited to typed words in a forum?

Does it understand that making absurd lowball offers, is in fact, an admission of disrespect and is NOT congenial or decent behavior?

Does it think there is any of this going on? That is specifically, GM's trying to pull one over on other GMs?

If yes, does it even intend to do anything about it?

[Ted]

I'll take no response from the parties in question as a response of No to all, by the way.

[usnspecialist]

I don't want to speak for the whole GB, but I absolutely know it goes on and I don't like it. That being said, it is tough to regulate what goes on in private negotiations.

[recte44]

It's hard to police something that you don't see or know about, Ted.

Let me count the number of official protests I've received in the last five years quickly: 2.

[recte44]

Do we plan to do anything about it? I've already posted one poll with a suggested fix, which has brought up discussions about a second suggested fix.

Did you miss that?

[Ted]

It's hard to police something that you don't see or know about, Ted.

Let me count the number of official protests I've received in the last five years quickly: 2.

To police something, you actually have to put in a system that monitors it. We don't have one. We have the ability to make individual complaints to the GB in a very disorganized fashion shortly after which our good hearted and well meaning GB members try to see the issue in the most favorable light and dismiss it. This is not a functional system. This is why its hard. Put a system in place that keeps track of things. Designate someone to do it. Collect data. Get multiple opinions from many different GMs.

[Ted]

It's hard to police something that you don't see or know about, Ted.

Let me count the number of official protests I've received in the last five years quickly: 2.

Two private complaints and what ten, fifteen very public loud ones? Do those not count in establishing there may be an issue?

[crobillard]

Maybe I'm part of the problem, but I don't view trading as a zero sum game. Just like trading in any sport irl there are losers and winners. I haven't delved into the constitution too deeply since I came back (I should), but I think we already have a veto process for egregiously lopsided deals. I've seen the discussions lately, but I don't really see the issue. I think ethically we shouldn't try to pull a fast one on a new guy. That's kinda gross, but as far as trades go, as long as they're terribly lopsided, I like a hands off approach from the league and if they are lopsided we should formally protest to the GB.

[recte44]

So in order to make and complete a trade one should receive permission from multiple gms?

[Ted]

So in order to make and complete a trade one should receive permission from multiple gms?

Just continue to ignore everything I''ve said. Feel free. Ignore the posts about monitoring behavior and keeping track of patterns. Assume that I mean ridiculous things that make no sense. Ignore the myriad of suggestion over the years that trades that are complained about be independently reviewed by GMs.

I mean come on, man. CLEARLY that's the point of my suggestion. But twist my words and imply that I meant something as stupid as GMs reviewing all the trades as they occur. Go right ahead.

[recte44]

I don’t even think that this was a bad trade. That’s what I’m having trouble wrapping my head around.

[bschr682]

I don’t even think that this was a bad trade. That’s what I’m having trouble wrapping my head around.

Maybe do one of those trade review things? I haven’t looked hard cuz it’s not my league but at first blush it’s at least confusing if not outright bad.

[RonCo]

As I said elsewhere, I'm not sure I would have made the trade as is in Ed's shoes, but I'm not sure I wouldn't have. I can say, though, that if I made it and the board denied it, that would really steam me.

[GoldenOne]

As someone who has been on the wrong side of one of these trades - we live and we learn. Did those trade affect the balance of the league? I dont think so. The Goats were in a bad place. Could I have gotten more for a couple of my earlier trades? Probably. Were the guys I traded on my trade block? Well, that's too much reason to do but I believe they were. If you dont like the trade offers because you think they are a "shark," just say no. Dont ever trade with that person. Simple.

The process was/is there. If you think its not fair, protest the trade. Not a loud and public shaming, protest the trade. Give your reasons why you think its not fair. Again, I can see if Matt wants more than a few others on a review committee, that is not necessarily the GB, that makes sense.

[udlb58]

As someone who has been on the wrong side of one of these trades - we live and we learn. Did those trade affect the balance of the league? I dont think so. The Goats were in a bad place. Could I have gotten more for a couple of my earlier trades? Probably. Were the guys I traded on my trade block? Well, that's too much reason to do but I believe they were. If you dont like the trade offers because you think they are a "shark," just say no. Dont ever trade with that person. Simple.

The process was/is there. If you think its not fair, protest the trade. Not a loud and public shaming, protest the trade. Give your reasons why you think its not fair. Again, I can see if Matt wants more than a few others on a review committee, that is not necessarily the GB, that makes sense.

I think we should send the PM if we think the trade is damaging. If a 'review board' (for lack of better wording) were formed, I'd be okay with that too, so long as it is looking for a pattern of damaging trades between teams (or behavior detrimental to the league?), not simply vetoing individual trades they don't agree with.

[handaspencer]

I have not responded yet because as a new gm I hesitate on controversial stuff. I personally would not have traded a cost controlled all star catcher but it’s not like they didn’t get value in return. I don’t think this is anywhere close to a voidable trade I have seen much worse in other leagues. If placed on the block he might have created a bidding war and improved the return certainly so I would have at least done that.

I am looking to make a few more moves myself but I don’t feel like I have a great feel for the market in the BBA yet so I trade cautiously. I think so far I have done adequate with return on my deals but sometimes you simply have to lose on a deal to go forward.

With that being said I am concerned the public lashing I could face if I undersell based off this.
If I make a move someone disagrees on please let me know privately and we will talk it through and I will appreciate you trying to help and I want to learn and get better.

Even though we are rival GM’S we are on the same team. Teammates fight because they are competitive and that’s sports but most cases it never reach the public because they keep it in the locker room and away from the media. Many times players get upset with management as well and once again it stays in house.

Nobody wins fighting among your peers. I actually told Recte I was resigning because this really rubbed me the wrong way. I came to the BBA after studying this league for weeks searching the forums trying to find these type issues where there was disfunction and I couldn’t find any so I finally thought I found a mature solid league, and up until this my opinion was spot on.
I have thought about it more and I want to give it another chance because I don’t think this behavior is normal and will continue. I have been trying to find a league to settle into. Good leagues are incredibly hard to find. Is the BBA perfect no. But if we can all share our differences with respect and properly separate private vs public communication it will make the league even stronger.

[JimBob2232]

I have not responded yet because as a new gm I hesitate on controversial stuff. I personally would not have traded a cost controlled all star catcher but it’s not like they didn’t get value in return. I don’t think this is anywhere close to a voidable trade I have seen much worse in other leagues. If placed on the block he might have created a bidding war and improved the return certainly so I would have at least done that.

I am looking to make a few more moves myself but I don’t feel like I have a great feel for the market in the BBA yet so I trade cautiously. I think so far I have done adequate with return on my deals but sometimes you simply have to lose on a deal to go forward.

With that being said I am concerned the public lashing I could face if I undersell based off this.
If I make a move someone disagrees on please let me know privately and we will talk it through and I will appreciate you trying to help and I want to learn and get better.

Even though we are rival GM’S we are on the same team. Teammates fight because they are competitive and that’s sports but most cases it never reach the public because they keep it in the locker room and away from the media. Many times players get upset with management as well and once again it stays in house.

Nobody wins fighting among your peers. I actually told Recte I was resigning because this really rubbed me the wrong way. I came to the BBA after studying this league for weeks searching the forums trying to find these type issues where there was disfunction and I couldn’t find any so I finally thought I found a mature solid league, and up until this my opinion was spot on.
I have thought about it more and I want to give it another chance because I don’t think this behavior is normal and will continue. I have been trying to find a league to settle into. Good leagues are incredibly hard to find. Is the BBA perfect no. But if we can all share our differences with respect and properly separate private vs public communication it will make the league even stronger.

Amen. And having been here now for almost 9 full real life years (wow!) I can tell you that what you saw is a one off. It’s like a perfect game. They are very rare, but they happen every now and again. We’ll move past it.

I hesitate to even comment on these posts because I just want to move on, but I think it’s important for others to know that I am not deterred by this. In fact, I think this has largely already died down. The GB I’m sure is discussing this privately. And if there are any changes they fell they are necessary, I’m sure they will make them in due course.

[Ted]

I have not responded yet because as a new gm I hesitate on controversial stuff. I personally would not have traded a cost controlled all star catcher but it’s not like they didn’t get value in return. I don’t think this is anywhere close to a voidable trade I have seen much worse in other leagues. If placed on the block he might have created a bidding war and improved the return certainly so I would have at least done that.

I am looking to make a few more moves myself but I don’t feel like I have a great feel for the market in the BBA yet so I trade cautiously. I think so far I have done adequate with return on my deals but sometimes you simply have to lose on a deal to go forward.

With that being said I am concerned the public lashing I could face if I undersell based off this.
If I make a move someone disagrees on please let me know privately and we will talk it through and I will appreciate you trying to help and I want to learn and get better.

Even though we are rival GM’S we are on the same team. Teammates fight because they are competitive and that’s sports but most cases it never reach the public because they keep it in the locker room and away from the media. Many times players get upset with management as well and once again it stays in house.

Nobody wins fighting among your peers. I actually told Recte I was resigning because this really rubbed me the wrong way. I came to the BBA after studying this league for weeks searching the forums trying to find these type issues where there was disfunction and I couldn’t find any so I finally thought I found a mature solid league, and up until this my opinion was spot on.
I have thought about it more and I want to give it another chance because I don’t think this behavior is normal and will continue. I have been trying to find a league to settle into. Good leagues are incredibly hard to find. Is the BBA perfect no. But if we can all share our differences with respect and properly separate private vs public communication it will make the league even stronger.

Amen. And having been here now for almost 9 full real life years (wow!) I can tell you that what you saw is a one off. It’s like a perfect game. They are very rare, but they happen every now and again. We’ll move past it.

I hesitate to even comment on these posts because I just want to move on, but I think it’s important for others to know that I am not deterred by this. In fact, I think this has largely already died down. The GB I’m sure is discussing this privately. And if there are any changes they fell they are necessary, I’m sure they will make them in due course.

This post from Kevin is why I am considering leaving. I don't want to be the person who makes the league worse of uncomfortable for people. I think a few times over the years now, I've gotten bent out of shape and caused a major blow up. This is rare, but I wouldn't call it a one off. I don't back down well on things I feel strongly about. And I don't handle arguments against what I see to be a clear truth very well either. I think that can cause problems in efforts that HAVE to by nature be collaborative (such as a league like this one). I've have to come up with a way to be more constructive when I have a issue with something. If I can figure out a plan to do that, that keeps me from being part of a ruckus like this one, that makes things less good, I'll stick around. To be clear, I'll never stop pointing out what I think are issues, but I'd like to keep the discourse on them from degenerating into yelling and screaming.

[crobillard]

This post from Kevin is why I am considering leaving. I don't want to be the person who makes the league worse of uncomfortable for people. I think a few times over the years now, I've gotten bent out of shape and caused a major blow up. This is rare, but I wouldn't call it a one off. I don't back down well on things I feel strongly about. And I don't handle arguments against what I see to be a clear truth very well either. I think that can cause problems in efforts that HAVE to by nature be collaborative (such as a league like this one). I've have to come up with a way to be more constructive when I have a issue with something. If I can figure out a plan to do that, that keeps me from being part of a ruckus like this one, that makes things less good, I'll stick around. To be clear, I'll never stop pointing out what I think are issues, but I'd like to keep the discourse on them from degenerating into yelling and screaming.

Don't leave. I like all of the conversations. The yelling, cringeworthy ones and the amicable ones. I may disagree with certain takes, but I think all of the conversation is healthy for the league and your passionate stances embolden others with quieter voices to speak up. Keep doing what you are doing dude. Maybe we can have a Ted Thread tracking current topics of concern though? lol. I think I would really enjoy that.