2038, Sim #2 Chatter

[RonCo]

At present we have one guy sitting on "unknown."

That one guy is Phoenix's Voitto Stromberg, who was out with a strained groin last week (listed to return in one week), and is now listed as "unknown" per the html reports.

The complaint generally leveled on injuries that go to "unknown" (and DTD injuries) is that they aren't realistic. However, it's not unusual at all for a person with a strained muscle to be literally on a day-to-day basis before he can come off the DL...which is what "unknown" essentially translates into. I mean, this happens ALL THE TIME with MLB players.

My guess here is that Stromberg will be ready to play in a few days. If that happens, then I'd argue this approach was as "realistic"...whatever that is. It at least passes the gut check for me.

[indiansfan]

Yeah I didn’t research Harlan’s injury history as much as I should have. Good news is he’ll be well rested for the playoffs.

[Ted]

At present we have one guy sitting on "unknown."

That one guy is Phoenix's Voitto Stromberg, who was out with a strained groin last week (listed to return in one week), and is now listed as "unknown" per the html reports.

The complaint generally leveled on injuries that go to "unknown" (and DTD injuries) is that they aren't realistic. However, it's not unusual at all for a person with a strained muscle to be literally on a day-to-day basis before he can come off the DL...which is what "unknown" essentially translates into. I mean, this happens ALL THE TIME with MLB players.

My guess here is that Stromberg will be ready to play in a few days. If that happens, then I'd argue this approach was as "realistic"...whatever that is. It at least passes the gut check for me.

My concern is not whether is is "realistic" or not. The mechanism itself is unwieldy and poorly implemented. Real teams have trainers and doctors that give them pretty reasonable information. I can tell you the outside window for how long one should except a mild sprained ankle to get good enough to stop limiting a player. I can grade different degrees of ankle sprains based on a physical exam. You can use this to predict, pretty accurately, what will happen. It is also different from how long before that ankle is strong enough to not be high risk for re-injury. These are not necessarily the same amount of time. And yes, there is variance, but the game implements this with its setbacks.

I completely disagree with your "this happens all the time" argument. Go find me the tons of press conferences or injury reports where someone on the team officially said "we have no idea how long that will be an issue". Sure, they're out there, but they are the rarity. Players do constantly deal with nagging injuries. But they either get better, or the player does on the DL. There just aren't public announcements when guys get better. But the teams do follow these injuries and monitor them and have updated exams and projections on what the player is likely to do.

My point is OOTP, in implementing more "realistic" injury patterns, is only giving us half the picture. It seems to be trying to mimic the pattern of injury without giving us any of the information regarding what is actually going on. That is incredibly frustrating.

What doesn't happen in real life, is a player with mild dtd injury sits for a week, and then suddenly becomes "unknown" and no further information is gathered by the team of provided to the public. Yes, sometimes guys sit and don't improve, but then they are re-evaluated and a timetable is set. Often that involves going on the DL.

But these sudden conversions to "unknown" on players that aren't playing is crap.


IN terms of what I'd like data on, I'd like to know whether playing the guy makes a difference at the rate conversion to "unknown" happens. The manual states that they ARE more likely to get injured, but I don't know if that means progression to a more serious injury, or lengthening of the current one, or both. Also, and this is anecdotal, but I've had, and plenty of other GMs seem to agree with me, a number of situations where I don't play a guy with a DTD, he changes to unknown, stays that way for weeks, I put him on the DL and he's instantly better after one sim. Maybe this is just biased recall. But I wonder if something in the way OOTP calculated rest/fatigue is for active versus DL'd players isn't working well here.

[Bumstead]

[usnspecialist]

If you want to call San Fernando's Perales an issue with DTD extending itself, you can ... I suppose. But I think that's just a case of Perales having a bad back. And then there's the whole Harlan Moore thing.

Alfredo Perales is basically a walking DTD at this point. Here are all of his injuries since 2036....

03/12/2036 Injured (Finger blister), day-to-day for 1 day.
04/13/2036 Injured (Bone chips (elbow)), out for 4 weeks.
06/01/2036 Injured (Ulnar nerve entrapment), out for 4 months.
03/01/2037 Injured (Back tightness), day-to-day for 2 weeks.
03/06/2037 Injured (Back tightness), day-to-day for 3 days.
03/13/2037 Injured (Forearm tendinitis), out for one week.
03/25/2037 Injured (Sore thumb), day-to-day for 2 days.
04/24/2037 Injured (Biceps tendinitis), out for 6 weeks.
05/19/2037 Suffered setback in recovery from injury, will miss another 4 weeks.
06/24/2037 Injured (Back tightness), day-to-day for 5 days.
06/29/2037 Injured (Back tightness), day-to-day for 6 days.
07/05/2037 Injured (Back stiffness), day-to-day for 2 days.
09/19/2037 Injured (Back spasms), day-to-day for 6 days.
09/25/2037 Injured (Back spasms), day-to-day for 2 days.
03/07/2038 Injured (Back spasms), day-to-day for one week.
03/14/2038 Injured (Back spasms), day-to-day for 5 days.
04/06/2038 Injured (Back tightness), day-to-day for 2 weeks.
04/12/2038 Injured (Back tightness), day-to-day for 5 days.

[Ted]

My overall point is a that game feature should add something. I really don't think DTD injuries have don't much besides add half implemented sham realism. If the guy is DTD for less than a week, you bench him. If it's more than a week, you put him on the DL. What a feature. So glad the devs put time into this.

There is so much low hanging fruit that could add realism if they're so concerned about that AND be fun. Have my coaches give me a heads up on guys in my minors tat have significantly improve their prospect status. That would be a cool little thing to see show up in your mailbox. Yeah, we all look at our minors, but this would feel neat to actually hear from coaches.

How about flexible pitch counts? So we stop pulling guys with no hitters going. It could be a simple as a check box. "Increase pitch limit to X for shutout." "Increase to X for no hitter".

You want players to be harder to extend, ask for more in FA? Fine, but give me real feedback that actually influences their decisions on where they'd like to live. Whether or not playing on a winner matters to them. And have it actually matter. None of this shit where we can change a personality rating by 200 points and who knows if it made a difference.

They need to stop adding "realism" without adding the information and control that comes with it. For the last few editions, I feel like I'm just finding new ways to dodge landmines that are ever increasingly hard to see.

[RonCo]

No goal post moving. The question at hand is injury management...which is fair to debate. If you want to keep discussing it, I'm fine with doing that.

[RonCo]

https://www.rosterresource.com/mlb-injury-report/

Check out "latest update"...

In all seriousness, I don't think it's just my opinion that players return dates are often ambiguous. Heck, the term "game-day-decision" is all about the answer being unknown until that that day.

I don't mean to be obstinant here.

[crobillard]

offense pls

[usnspecialist]

offense pls

nah, just hold off a few more days

[Ted]

https://www.rosterresource.com/mlb-injury-report/

Check out "latest update"...

In all seriousness, I don't think it's just my opinion that players return dates are often ambiguous. Heck, the term "game-day-decision" is all about the answer being unknown until that that day.

I don't mean to be obstinant here.

I don't see how that link shows anything ambiguous. It just says whether or not a player is ready by a particular day. The teams internally have to have better ideas. Again, no problem with 4-6 weeks. Or a 2 week thing not recovering in time. It's just "unknown". That's lazy, sloppy garbage. Even if you don't know when exactly something will get better, teams internally know when they will re-evaluate it. All I want is actionable info. Instead, we get opaque nonsense.

I'm not moving the goalposts. My goal posts have firmly been for some time that OOTP has added little to no meaningful gameplay elements in the last few versions. They are simply mimicking realism and increasing the fog of war to make their approximations seem palatable. This is a trend with OOTP and it's driving me nuts. They're faking realism by incorporating vagueness. Unknown injuries, no public facing coaching data (which we used to have), adding an option to hide the personality ratings while apparently making players more picky, giving less info in the scouting reports, players not liking my manager, but not telling me what about him they don't like so i can address it with the next hire, being locked out of team strategy control by my manager, but not being given any measures of how he's altering it. It goes on and on. Yes, we have more realistic injuries and injury patterns now, but none of the tools to manage them.

Wanna stick with something injury related that is an example. Let's beat on PAP some more. As soon as this was incorporated, variable pitch counts should have been implemented. Whether or not you think PAP is valid, they decided to implement a pitcher injury model to try to get more realistic. That's fine. But then give the PAP data in game. And if you're going to use a model that forces me to limit pitches if I want to avoid injury, you HAVE to allow me to make exceptions or the rate of complete games and no hitters will get artificially low. Why don't we care about THAT kind of realism?

They incorporated framing supposedly a while back. Then they should be reporting it as data, and allowing us to evaluate players based on that knowledge. It's always more and more and more fog of war with this game, which is contrary to whats' actually happening in baseball which is more data, and more data driven decisions. If they want to be realistic, and add all the headaches that come with managing actual people, then give me the tools to address them. Don't just force me to do wonky bullshit to manage my way around them. Bullshit like putting every player with a DTD injury on the DL, because it could become "unknown", and that can last anywhere from two days to five months.

I don't mean to obstinate either. I know that they are a relatively small development team. I get that major changes are hard. I'm not asking for miracles. I simply think they've picked the wrong targets time and time again to improve their product and it's made the game less fun. People play this instead of the big market games because want to manage a team or run a team. So give me stuff that increases my ability to do that. I could go play OOTP 15 right now and it would feel essentially the same.

[Ted]

The concise version is as follows: Recent versions of OOTP have tried to model exceptionally complex processes such as injuries and player contract negotiations/demand, league economy in more realistic and detailed ways to varying degrees of success. (Fairly successfully in reality). But they are expecting us, the player, to address these complex models with the same toolset as old timey baseball GM's and managers, one that they have changed to almost no noticeable degree in as long as I've had OOTP, and in some ways has lost functionality. In essence, we're being handed a fischer price toolset, and being asked to go build a skyscraper.

If they intend to stick me with children's toys, I would prefer they leave the problems simplistic.

[Bumstead]

I can only assume that at some point it has to become exhausting to defend every feature in OOTP...The DTD injuries aren't DTD in OOTP. You can't play the guys or they die...Cal Ripken played how many games in a row with countless DTD injuries? It was more than 4 games and if I have a guy that has a 4 game DTD injury I just take him out of the lineup for a week and hope the moron doctors that we have can figure out his ailment.

OOTP is a great sim, but the DTD thing (among other drama creations) is over the top and not realistic in the least.

And to be clear, I'm not debating that DTD injuries don't exist in real life or that the rare occurrence exists where the length of the injury is unknown (yet a timetable is still definable), I'm just saying OOTP does not handle DTD injuries correctly and dramatizes the frequency of unknown (no timetable) length of said injuries. OOTP also dramatizes the impact of players playing through DTD injuries. IMHO, if OOTP can't get said "DTD" injuries to work correctly then don't saddle us with the silliness. Why is there a need to infuse drama into a sim baseball game anyway? Of all the things Marcus, et al, puts into the game, the need to insert drama into the game baffles me....I guess the entertainment value of a "reality tv" format is lost on this guy.

I have pads on, feel free to defend OOTP's honor.

[Bumstead]

There might be "realism" in the number of injuries. Not much "realism" in the way DTD injuries work and progress into full blown injuries. I like to think of DTD injuries in OOTP like watching Survivor...just a bunch of drama and OOTP loves drama. I labeled it "fun" because it's a video game and video games are "fun," right?

Having actually created a script to look at injuries makes these things fairly easy to look at.

--------------------------------

As of this date, there have been:

92 DtD injuries in the BBA this season (including ST)
11 Playes who have had multiple events


- San Fernando's Alfredo Perales has been plagued with back problems all spring. He's had four instances o back spasms/tightness. (all DTD) He's "fine" now, though.

- Boise's Bill Marsh had back tighness and a mild oblique strain in the spring, both DTD. He then sprained an ankle pitching, and will be out 6 weeks. The ankle sprian is most likely not associated with the spring issues.

- Brooklyn's Alberto Benities had an intercostal strain during ST that put him on the shelf for two weeks, then had a DTD flexor strain that lasted 5 days. Not a case of DTD extending.

- Charm City's Carlos Garcia had a finger blister in late march (DTD), then ruptured a tendon in his finger (out 3-4 months). It's possible that the code could have made it more likely that his finger got hurt on his DTD return. Unsure...

- Nashville's Greg Groves has been fighting illness this spring. He's had a cold and flu-like symptoms...both DTD for a short period.

- Calgary's Harlan Moore is a walking injury waiting to happen. He had back tightness in the spring, then ruptured his achilles and is out for 3 months. If you thought Moore wasn't getting injured this year, that's on you. Regardless, while the OOTP code does focus on body parts, I'd struggle to consider Mooore's issues to be related to hsi DTD thing.

- Madison's Jose Carlos Moreno broke his thumb, and had a set-back. Not related to the DTD thing at all.

- Calgary's Lee Morgan had two muscle strains in the spring (back spasm and abdominal), both DTD for 5-7 days. No issues so far. Also not unusual.

- Atlantic City's Miguel Pena had 1-day back tightness, and a 3-day blister.

- Like Calragy's Lee Morgan, Vancouver's Rodrigo Lugo has back tightness and an oblique strain, both DTD. He's recovered and pitching now.

- Then we come to Santiago Morales, whose sore elbos was diagnosed as a 4-week problem. To me, this suggests it's more severe than many others, but that could just be me. As Kyle said, he tried to protect Morales, but now he's hurt for another 4 weeks.

-----------------------------

Morales is literally the only case of a guy who playing through a DTD injury has pretty clearly resulted in that injury worsening. Carlos Garcia's case is possible as a code bug, but his ruptured tendon is probably unlikely to be related to the blister. He had recovered, after all. Still, if you count Garcia there have been two cases of playing guys through DTD injuries--out of 92--that have resulted in extended problems.

Shrug.

What makes you think these guys all "played" through their injuries? I take my guys out of the lineup if they are injured. Case in point, my Rule V RP is (Durand?) is DTD with a pulled hair follicle, so I changed his role to "None Specified" so that he wouldn't pitch. I would guess most GM's do something similar. Unless you can see where these 92 players (instances) played through their "DTD" injury, I would doubt than many of them did. I call it an "OOTP Lesson Learned." Don't want to get my hand slapped by OOTP thinking a DTD injury is actually just a DTD injury...

As to Bill Marsh, I may have very well played him right through his "DTD" injuries just hoping he would break a nail and be out for a lengthy period of time...In Boise, we can afford to let some of these guys die on the vine because their future in my organization is going to be as short as I can make it.

[7teen]

I love OOTP.

It brings me great joy.

Kids, you are welcome to play in my yard!

[Bumstead]

I love OOTP.

It brings me great joy.

Kids, you are welcome to play in my yard!

Your yard is brown and makes my legs itch...

[RonCo]

I have pads on, feel free to defend OOTP's honor.

Sheesh..."defend OOTP's honor." Huzzah.

I went through the game logs of the players that were DTD injuries, skipping Jon Mick's January bruised knee, looking for whether the player played during the injury or not, as well as categorizing what happened next. Bottom line is that about half played, and half did not. As a general rule, it depended a bit on whether they were pitchers or not. (about 75% of position players saw the field during their DTD injury, whereas only 20% of pitchers did--often due to off days and rotation slots combined with short injury durations).

Here is the data.

You make your own decision about whether the game is handling DTD with too much drama or not. I'll admit to me, this doesn't make me get all pissy, but you're a big boy and you've got your pads on.

I note that zero of these 91 (92) BBA level players so far have gone from DTD injuries to "unknown."


Played - 42 (12 P, 30 Positions)

Results:
35 - Player Recovered
3 - NA (Injury is Current)
2 - BBA GM placed player on DL (Injury is current)
1 - Played and had another DTD Injury (Perales - SFB)
1 - Played and had the DTD injury set back 6 weeks (Morales - HNT)

Did Not Play - 49 (40 P, 9 Position)

Results:
43 - Player recovered
4 - NA (Injury is current)
2 - BBA GM placed player on DL (Injury is current)

I'll note that I called it a Did Not Play if the guy returned on the day his injury says he should (day 5 of a 5 day injury - "N?" below). If that's incorrect, then the "play-through" data is under-represented.


Here's the data, if you want to fiddle with it:

Code: Select all

Month	Day	POS	Team	Player	Injury	Type	Activity	Duration Number	Duration	Play?	Result	
4	13	RP	Charm City Jimmies	Ed Kenney	Sprained ankle	DTD	pitching	6	days	N	NA	Current
4	13	LF	California Crusaders	Esteban Cuervo	Eye irritation	DTD	running	4	days	N	NA	Current
4	13	RP	Boise Spuds	Laurent Durand	Sore shoulder	DTD	pitching	6	days	Y	NA	Current
4	12	C	San Antonio Outlaws	Carlos Díaz	Flu	DTD	illness?	1	week	N	NA	Current
4	12	SP	San Fernando Bears	Alfredo Perales	Back tightness	DTD	pitching	5	days	N	NA	Current
4	12	RP	Charm City Jimmies	Zhuo-cheng Kin	Sore back	DTD	pitching	4	days	N	Ok	Early
4	10	SP	Mexico City Aztecs	Júlio Silva	Back spasms	DTD	pitching	1	day	N	Ok	
4	10	1B	Atlantic City Gamblers	Gustavo Aguilera	Strained hamstring	DTD	running	2	weeks	Y	NA	Current
4	10	RF	Omaha Hawks	Alonso Olvere	Bruised toe	DTD	running	2	days	Y	Ok	
4	9	LF	San Fernando Bears	Pedro Garza	Tender elbow	DTD	throwing	1	week	Y	NA	Current
4	7	2B	Jacksonville Hurricanes	Luzvimindo Arbizo	Flu	DTD	illness?	2	days	N	Ok	
4	6	CF	Hawaii Tropics	Wilford Robertson	Strep throat	DTD	illness?	3	days	N	Ok	
4	6	SP	Nashville Goats	Eru Likiliki	Strained back	DTD	pitching	5	days	N?	Ok	
4	6	SP	San Fernando Bears	Alfredo Perales	Back tightness	DTD	pitching	2	weeks	Y	Inj	
4	6	LF	Boise Spuds	Pedro Holguín	Back spasms	DTD	throwing	1	week	Y	Ok	
4	6	RP	Long Beach Surfers	Mario González	Finger blister	DTD	pitching	2	days	N	Ok	
4	6	RF	San Fernando Bears	Luis Maldonado	Blurred vision	DTD	HBP	2	days	Y	Ok	
4	3	SP	Charm City Jimmies	David Márquez	Mild abdominal strain	DTD	pitching	6	days	N?	Ok	
4	3	SP	San Antonio Outlaws	Elliot Buckland	Back stiffness	DTD	pitching	 1-2	weeks	Y	Ok	
4	3	CF	Louisville Sluggers	Phil Dand	Sore thumb	DTD	throwing	2	days	N	Ok	
4	2	SP	Calgary Pioneers	Cristóbal Hernández	Strained forearm	DTD	pitching	 2-3	weeks	N	DL	Current
4	2	SP	Omaha Hawks	Manuel Orozco	Sore back	DTD	pitching	1	week	Y?	Ok	
4	2	SS	Long Beach Surfers	Dong-soo Chon	Wrist tendinitis	DTD	collision	3	weeks	Y	DL	Current
4	1	1B	San Antonio Outlaws	Andy Seekins	Bruised foot	DTD	HBP	5	days	Y	Ok	
4	1	SP	San Fernando Bears	Feliciano Rafael	Mild hamstring strain	DTD	pitching	6	days	N?	Ok	
4	1	DH	Phoenix Talons	Bartolo Ortíz	Knee inflammation	DTD	running	5	days	Y	Ok	
3	28	SP	Rockville Pikemen	Jorge Aguilar	Back spasms	DTD	pitching	3	days	N	Ok	
3	27	SP	Charm City Jimmies	Thiongo Muiru	Hamstring soreness	DTD	pitching	2	days	N	Ok	
3	27	RP	New Orleans Crawdads	Ricardo Valenzuela	Sore thumb	DTD	pitching	1	day	N	Ok	
3	27	RP	Rockville Pikemen	Mathias Løvlien	Finger blister	DTD	pitching	2	days	Y	Ok	
3	27	LF	San Fernando Bears	Donald Cox	Bruised shin	DTD	HBP	4	days	Y	Ok	
3	27	SP	Edmonton Jackrabbits	Chuck Barnes	Sore ankle	DTD	pitching	5	days	N?	Ok	
3	27	SS	Seattle Storm	Jay Garrick	Mild oblique strain	DTD	running	2	days	N	Ok	
3	26	SP	Madison Wolves	Dave White	Sore back	DTD	pitching	1	week	N	DL	
3	26	SP	Madison Wolves	José Cavazos	Back tightness	DTD	pitching	1	week	Y	DL	
3	25	SP	San Antonio Outlaws	Francisco Rojas	Flu	DTD	illness?	4	days	N	Ok	
3	25	RP	Des Moines Kernels	Aaron Campbell	Back stiffness	DTD	pitching	2	weeks	N?	Ok	
3	25	SP	Calgary Pioneers	Mike Bragg	Strained abdominal muscle	DTD	pitching	1	week	N?	Ok	
3	24	SS	Huntsville Phantoms	Santiago Morales	Sore elbow	DTD	collision	4	weeks	Y	Setback	
3	24	CF	Charm City Jimmies	Carlos García	Finger blister	DTD	throwing	2	days	Y	Ok	
3	23	RP	Calgary Pioneers	Jorge Pérez	Sore back	DTD	pitching	2	days	N	Ok	
3	23	1B	Montreal Blazers	Benjamin Dale	Bruised ankle	DTD	running	1	day	Y	Ok	
3	23	RP	Brooklyn Robins	Jacob Pilbeam	Back stiffness	DTD	pitching	3	days	Y	Ok	
3	23	RP	Las Vegas Hustlers	Ángel Lorenzo	Strained back	DTD	pitching	4	days	N?	Ok	
3	21	2B	Brooklyn Robins	Alberto Benítez	Hip flexor strain	DTD	running	5	days	Y	Ok	
3	21	3B	Valencia Stars	Curt Love	Bruised toe	DTD	HBP	1	day	N	Ok	
3	20	RF	Atlantic City Gamblers	John Noble	Sore elbow	DTD	throwing	6	days	Y	Ok	
3	20	RF	San Antonio Outlaws	Mark White	Pulled abdominal muscle	DTD	running	1	week	N	Ok	
3	20	SS	Brooklyn Robins	Pablo Soto	Back tightness	DTD	throwing	6	days	Y	Ok	
3	20	2B	Huntsville Phantoms	Paul Warren	Sore back	DTD	running	1	week	Y	Ok	
3	20	LF	Twin Cities River Monsters	Ray Cooper	Bruised jaw	DTD	HBP	2	days	Y	Ok	
3	18	CF	Rockville Pikemen	Onofredo Meregalli	Bruised finger	DTD	HBP	4	days	Y	Ok	
3	18	RP	Long Beach Surfers	Robert Hansen	Sore thumb	DTD	pitching	1	day	N	Ok	
3	17	SP	Madison Wolves	Pedro Salduar	Back tightness	DTD	pitching	 1-2	weeks	Y	Ok	
3	17	1B	Montreal Blazers	Charles Martin	Knee soreness	DTD	running	5	days	Y	Ok	
3	17	RP	Las Vegas Hustlers	Javier García	Strained back	DTD	pitching	4	days	Y	Ok	
3	16	SP	Nashville Goats	Greg Groves	Flu-like symptoms	DTD	illness?	1	week	N	Ok	
3	16	SP	Atlantic City Gamblers	Miguel Peña	Finger blister	DTD	pitching	3	days	N	Ok	
3	16	CF	Omaha Hawks	Jimmy Starks Jr.	Pulled abdominal muscle	DTD	throwing	6	days	Y	Ok	
3	14	SP	San Fernando Bears	Alfredo Perales	Back spasms	DTD	pitching	5	days	N	Ok	
3	14	2B	San Fernando Bears	Tony Loftis	Back stiffness	DTD	running	1	week	Y	Ok	
3	12	LF	Louisville Sluggers	Pedro Saldaña	Heel soreness	DTD	throwing	1	day	N	Ok	
3	11	3B	Jacksonville Hurricanes	David Noboru	Back spasms	DTD	running	3	days	Y	Ok	
3	11	SP	Louisville Sluggers	Augusto Sánchez	Mild shoulder inflammation	DTD	throwing	2	weeks	Y	Ok	
3	11	SP	Seattle Storm	Ken Walter	Mild calf strain	DTD	pitching	1	day	N	OK	
3	10	RP	Long Beach Surfers	Mark Little	Flu-like symptoms	DTD	illness?	1	day	N	Ok	
3	10	RP	Nashville Goats	Marcos López	Strained forearm	DTD	pitching	 2-3	weeks	N	Ok	
3	10	SP	Seattle Storm	Sven Kahn	Back spasms	DTD	pitching	1	day	N	Ok	
3	10	CL	Boise Spuds	Bill Marsh	Mild oblique strain	DTD	pitching	1	day	N	Ok	
3	7	1B	Jacksonville Hurricanes	Manuel Martínez	Blurred vision	DTD	HBP	1	day	Y	OK	
3	7	SP	San Fernando Bears	Alfredo Perales	Back spasms	DTD	pitching	1	week	N?	Inj	
3	7	RP	California Crusaders	Fernan Farinha	Mild calf strain	DTD	pitching	1	day	N	Ok	
3	6	RP	Valencia Stars	Félix Alvarado	Flu	DTD	illness?	2	days	N?	Ok	
3	6	RP	Atlantic City Gamblers	Juan Jose Eilzando	Mild oblique strain	DTD	pitching	5	days	N	Ok	
3	6	SP	Calgary Pioneers	Lee Morgan	Back spasms	DTD	pitching	5	days	N	Ok	
3	4	LF	Huntsville Phantoms	Fernando Reyes	Sore thumb	DTD	throwing	1	day	Y	Ok	
3	4	1B	Wichita Aviators	Juan Pérez	Knee tendinitis	DTD	running	3	weeks	Y	Ok	
3	4	LF	Mexico City Aztecs	Gipper Kengos	Bruised thigh	DTD	HBP	6	days	Y	Ok	
3	4	RP	California Crusaders	Edwin Stubbs	Finger blister	DTD	pitching	5	days	N	Ok	
3	4	CL	Boise Spuds	Bill Marsh	Back tightness	DTD	pitching	6	days	N?	Ok	
3	3	CF	Long Beach Surfers	Alain Pichon	Elbow contusion	DTD	HBP	1	week	Y	Ok	
3	2	SP	Wichita Aviators	Ricardo Ortíz	Back stiffness	DTD	pitching	 1-2	weeks	Y	Ok	
3	2	SP	Atlantic City Gamblers	Miguel Peña	Back tightness	DTD	pitching	1	day	N	Ok	
3	2	RP	California Crusaders	José Morales	Strained back	DTD	pitching	3	days	N	Ok	
3	2	RP	Louisville Sluggers	Gabriel Vallejo	Sprained elbow	DTD	pitching	2	weeks	N	Ok	
3	2	CL	Vancouver Mounties	Rodrigo Lugo	Back tightness	DTD	pitching	6	days	Y	Ok	
2	28	CF	Des Moines Kernels	Craig White	Finger blister	DTD	throwing	2	days	Y	Ok	
2	28	DH	Mexico City Aztecs	Toshiyuki Shimizu	Mild hamstring strain	DTD	running	2	days	Y	Ok	
2	27	SP	Nashville Goats	Greg Groves	Cold	DTD	illness?	3	days	N	Ok	
2	26	SP	Calgary Pioneers	Lee Morgan	Strained abdominal muscle	DTD	pitching	1	week	N	Ok	
2	25	SS	Calgary Pioneers	Harlan W. Moore	Back tightness	DTD	running	1	day	Y	OK	

[RonCo]

What makes you think these guys all "played" through their injuries? I take my guys out of the lineup if they are injured. Case in point, my Rule V RP is (Durand?) is DTD with a pulled hair follicle, so I changed his role to "None Specified" so that he wouldn't pitch.

I should note that "none specified" does not keep a pitcher from appearing in games. I use that designation often in spring training games, and my guys always get innings.

The only way to keep a guy from appearing is to go to game strategy and bench the player for "x days."

[Bumstead]

You are a fiddler and I am a non-fiddler for the most part.

I don't get pissy, I just find it annoying. My padding is this extra weight I keep carrying around. In my experience, if I play the guy through his "DTD" injury then he dies (ends up with a longer "DTD" injury, or sustains an actual injury that doesn't allow him to play). Hence, these are not "DTD" injuries for my players, they are actual injuries that keep them from playing. You can have your own experiences and suggest that mine are incorrect or exaggerated, but that's how it has been in my experience (I compete in multiple leagues). So, if I feel I have to operate in that manner, and OOTP is going to call these "DTD" injuries, then it's not working as intended in my case (and should be removed until it works as intended).

We don't have to agree Ron, and we often don't. I'm not mad or losing any sleep over it. It's just another drama creation that is frustrating when all one wants to do is enjoy some competition with a video game (that I assume is supposed to be fun, not annoying).

I will move on as I won't be fiddling with the data because it won't change how I go about dealing with this "issue."

[Bumstead]

What makes you think these guys all "played" through their injuries? I take my guys out of the lineup if they are injured. Case in point, my Rule V RP is (Durand?) is DTD with a pulled hair follicle, so I changed his role to "None Specified" so that he wouldn't pitch.

I should note that "none specified" does not keep a pitcher from appearing in games. I use that designation often in spring training games, and my guys always get innings.

The only way to keep a guy from appearing is to go to game strategy and bench the player for "x days."

I'm aware, but it generally works for a week barring a tired staff. If I think it's going to be an issue, I just stick them on the DL. I have my ways.