2037, Sim #8 Chatter

[Ted]

California Crusaders: Signed international amateur CF Pedro Esquivel out of Mexico to a minor league contract.

Every time I see this:
Loads game. "Come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on...
Logs in: "I mean, it has to be my turn eventually. One time, right?"
Downloads file: "Come on, come on, come on, comeon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon,c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon,c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon,c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon,c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon,c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon,c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon,c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon,c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon,c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon,c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon,c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon,c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon,c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon,c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon,c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon,c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon,c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon,c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon,c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon,c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon,c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon,c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon,c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon,c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon,c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon,c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon,c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon,c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon,c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon,c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon,c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon,c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon,c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon,c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon,c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon,c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon,c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon,c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon,c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon,c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon,c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon,c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon,c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon,c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon,c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon,c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, Come On One Time Please!"

Checks international complex: "FUCK YOU OOTP!"
Turns off game.

[ae37jr]

California Crusaders: Signed international amateur CF Pedro Esquivel out of Mexico to a minor league contract.

Every time I see this:
Loads game. "Come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on...
Logs in: "I mean, it has to be my turn eventually. One time, right?"

Checks international complex: "FUCK YOU OOTP!"
Turns off game.

Same. This is the one part of the game that I feel is unrealistic. I know we don't really allocate money to international finds, but if this were real baseball we would. So to pay a scout to travel and live halfway around the world, going from small town to small town. And all he brings back is some random 16 year old with .5 star potential?

I know we tried something different and teams were pulling out uber prospects. I also think these players tend to bump/lump more then draftees. But I just feel like the process isn't what it should be. I think it's more an OOTP thing then a BBA thing. I'm not suggesting we change anything. I just wish that every international find we sign is at least 3 star potential. They could and should lump more then a draftee(as you are going off of one scouts opinion vs a consensus). Just give us a glimmer of hope, if not only for a half season.

[7teen]

4-2 but with runs totals of 52-28. Offense rolling along just fine, with massive power surges resulting in 3 different guys on pace for 50+ HR and another in the mid 40s. 109 HR thru 47 games.

you didnt know that there were "games to be given later" in the maldonado deal? I thought i mentioned that at the time....

Oh, I wasn't aware. In that case we need Recte to step in and void the trade and give me Maldonado back.

[agrudez]

Has the vocal minority that detests random international signings finally become a vocal majority? I'll be so damn happy the day that is put out to pasture. Bad enough I have to play The Sims, I don't want to play Roulette, too. This is supposed to be baseball.

[Lane]

Has the vocal minority that detests random international signings finally become a vocal majority? I'll be so damn happy the day that is put out to pasture. Bad enough I have to play The Sims, I don't want to play Roulette, too. This is supposed to be baseball.

If any sport is roulette, it's baseball.

[Ted]

Has the vocal minority that detests random international signings finally become a vocal majority? I'll be so damn happy the day that is put out to pasture. Bad enough I have to play The Sims, I don't want to play Roulette, too. This is supposed to be baseball.

If any sport is roulette, it's baseball.

I kind of disagree with this, only in that nothing is roulette in terms of randomness. Not even roulette. Randomness above the level of quantum physics isn't really a thing (and supposedly it's debatable at the quantum physics level, but I get bored really fast when I try to learn about that). It's just something we think is there because we either lack the knowledge or level of granularity necessary to understand what is happening. I think this is why I disagree so much with many of you about randomness. Some people see randomness and go "Hey, that's how it is." I see it and say, "That's a flawed simulation of reality, because reality ISN'T random." Now, the fact that there is so very much we don't understand about who gets injured, which players develop and which don't, what makes a prospect "bump", etc makes a better simulation very difficult if not impossible right now. But still, the fact that all games like this use a random number generator to fill these holes in understanding/processing power always leaves me feeling a bit dissatisfied. It's why I always want to eliminate things (like CEI's and maybe I'm starting to agree with Kyle about scout finds) that seem excessively random and don't really make a huge impact anyway.

[agrudez]

Randomness, like most things, is about perspective, for me. Whether a lump/bump/whatever is truly random in the code (it's not - somewhere down the line a seed was chosen that knew this result was going to occur) or some predetermined measure is besides the point. Unless you, the GM, is aware of the predetermination then it becomes random to you from your perspective.

That all aside, Injuries and prospects lumping/bumping are at least grounded in reality. Random scout finds with 5 star POT potential are decidedly not. No team just goes to Cuba, finds the next Alex Rodriguez and puts a flag in their back like in the moon landing to claim their territory. In real life they get signed as IFAs.

[usnspecialist]

Vlad guerrero signed for $2500, just saying.

[agrudez]

And his son signed for 3.9M. Are we trying to emulate the 1980s or the 2010s? Either way, both were available for all teams at the time of their signing and weren't just randomly assigned to one lucky one out of the blue.

[udlb58]

Has the vocal minority that detests random international signings finally become a vocal majority? I'll be so damn happy the day that is put out to pasture. Bad enough I have to play The Sims, I don't want to play Roulette, too. This is supposed to be baseball.

I Hate the random international signings (yes, that's with a capital 'H'). I can take the guys coming in as international signings, but I just live with the randoms because I have to. I still contend that the random signings neuter the draft class, unless they are turned way down and the draft has a ton of talent (and if that is the case, then why have them?). I'd rather see more random 10th round picks bumping than random international scout signings.

[RonCo]

Kyle’s question (what are we modeling?) is a good one. The random nature of OOTP International finds can be imagined as representing either of two things: (1) a scouting/acquisition process that was more free-form of the old days, or (2) a process by which low-price IFA players of the current day are acquired (players signed for small amounts of money don’t count against MLB bonuses).

OOTP’s implementation ultimately is not “accurate,” no matter what camp you sit in. It’s really its own thing. Its base IFA process is also wrong, but that’s another discussion.

I’ve said before that I’m fine either way on these guys, but mostly I figure it’s a gameplay thing. It’s either fun for people or not fun. There is a certain amount of fun in them for me, and I enjoy the process of seeing what GMs do with them.

I note that our banter about “realism” is always interesting, too. As a group we’ve recently discussed realism of several things about the OOTP model (player development, Gap Power vs. Power, The development of pitches—particularly the change up, and the injury model spring to mind. Now we’re discussing the intake of International players. In each of these conversations, the desire for “realism” vs. gameplay seems to sit at different places for different people. (aside: if you want to change the game itself, go to the OOTP forums and propose good alternatives—now is the time, as v20 work is spinning up).

At the core of these conversations, though, is always what we each find fun.

Personally, I like the existence of CEI. I like "realistic" injury rates (even when they kill me), I like dealing with uncertainty of International guys (even when other guys get them). I don’t like drafts with ultra-deep prospects (because I don’t like the aggressive development hits they create--and I feel just as excited drafting what others probably consider boring players). But that’s me. You are each probably different, and I wouldn't say you're wrong to feel however you feel.

Ultimately, the organization development side of my brain says it would be an intellectually interesting exercise to survey our GMs on every aspect of the BBA to see what the league as a whole likes and dislikes about the league...not to change anything, but really to see who we are.

[recte44]

Get ready for the most profound thing I’ve said in 2019.

This is not an outcome simulation. This is a Problem Solving situation.

Change your mindset to this and you will see the light.

[RonCo]

This is not an outcome simulation. This is a Problem Solving situation.

Change your mindset to this and you will see the light.

Yoda, spoken he has.

[RonCo]

All I can say for sure it that, while I want the environment to be very baseball like, the main thing I like is playing against great competition.