2030, Awards Voting Chatter

[recte44]

Ok, we're back to OOTPOU for Awards Voting this year.
http://montybrewster.net/cgi-bin/ootpou.pl?page=awards

Voting due by Landis sim.

[tommyboy]

I wasnt planning on voting since i really didnt see the year as FYI.

[recte44]

Feel free to vote!

Sent from my LGLS775 using Tapatalk

[JimBob2232]

Delgado for ROY and CL of the year! Next year for Nebraska Winner!

[Ted]

When I was bumping him a bit ago, it seemed like Diaz was in the lead for the Nebraska. Now it's more of a mixed picture. Louisville's Chandler leads in wins (if you like those) and innings pitched. Vancouver has a couple of great seasons as far as runs allowed go from Antonio Correa and Juan Hernandez. Somehow Alfredo Contreras leads in WAR despite a 4.50 ERA. Diaz leads in the advanced metric stuff like FIP, and is closer to the top of the leaderboards in more other categories (hits per 9, k's per nine, K/BB, WAR, ERA, wins) than anyone else. It's a tight race and going to come down to voter preference.

[aaronweiner]

Vote Bill Lewis for Gillstrom! Nobody with a 4-18 record deserves to be forgotten.

[felipe]

I'm old fashioned I guess; I put the most emphasis on wins and saves, unless someone has an astronomical amount of strikeouts

For year end awards, I don't care 'what he should have done' or how 'he'll revert to norms, look at that babip'...I care about what he actually accomplished, and a starter is there to win and eat innings, and a reliever is there to save games

Evaluating players for inclusion/exclusion on my next year's team? That's a different story...

[Lane]

Simpson for FL Gillstrom!

[bschr682]

Every year I read this thread and vote against every person that gets mentioned. That can't be healthy...

[aaronweiner]

I'm old fashioned I guess; I put the most emphasis on wins and saves, unless someone has an astronomical amount of strikeouts

For year end awards, I don't care 'what he should have done' or how 'he'll revert to norms, look at that babip'...I care about what he actually accomplished, and a starter is there to win and eat innings, and a reliever is there to save games

Evaluating players for inclusion/exclusion on my next year's team? That's a different story...

Which is how we get things like "Leon Magdayao, 2016 Steve Nebraska Winner."

[aaronweiner]

Every year I read this thread and vote against every person that gets mentioned. That can't be healthy...

Darn it! This means Bill Lewis had a chance.

[Ted]

The early Nebraska results seem to indicate that we still believe being on a team that scores a lot of runs and wins a lot of games is the most important qualifier for being the best pitcher. *sigh*

[aaronweiner]

So where's your first place vote for Billy Chapel, Jr., who led the BBA in WAR?

[Ted]

So where's your first place vote for Billy Chapel, Jr., who led the BBA in WAR?

I don't like pitcher WAR much (especially as implemented in OOTP), but I initially had Billy Chapel in 1st or second, then moved him down some, Other guys in the Johnson had better ERA's. That may have been a mistake, but I had a real hard with the Johnson Nebraksa. I changed my order about 10 times among 7 guys and I'm convinced I got it wrong.

Th problem with pitcher wins is that more than any other metric to judge a pitcher by they are influenced by what other players on his team does. The way they are awarded is stupid. Over a career they can mean something as all the other variables tend to even out, but in a single season they are dumb to use to say who is the best. As far as the Frick goes, Vancouver had TWO players that got outs and gave up fewer runs than Chandler.

The reason for my complaint is that we have two very murky, very close races for the Nebraska, and it looks like a terrible metric for judging pitchers will be the deciding factor.

A pitcher's job is to get outs while not giving up runs. It's that simple. While he is likely to get wins if he does that well, the way the win is awarded is so much less reliable that things like FIP, era, OPS allowed, or basically any other more pitcher specific number.

Examples

ONE Team A's starter goes 8 innings, gives up 1 run and 12 strikeouts, no walks and leaves with a 4-1 lead. Team A's closer gives up 4 runs, but Team A scores 2 in the bottom of the 9th to win the game. The CLOSER, who pitched POORLY and nearly lost the game gets awarded the WIN. He actually picks up a win BECAUSE he pitched poorly.

TWO Team A's starter goes 6 innings, strikes out out 10, walks none, gives up two runs. Team is down when he leaves. Three different relievers pitch for team A, each going 1 inning and giving up one run, but their team scores more runs and actually takes the lead during one of those innings. Team A's starter doesn't get the win despite being the best pitcher on his team, but he wasn't even the best pitcher in the game. Team B's starter went 7 innings and gave up no runs. Best pitcher in the game doesn't get the win, again.

THREE Team A's starter goes 75 innings, gives up 5 runs, leaves with a lead because the offense scored six. The bullpen throws 4 shutout innings and team A's starter gets a win for his very mediocre performance.

You can just go on and on. We haven't even talked about defense and unearned runs, or the arbitray rule that a starter must go five innings, etc. Pitching wins depend on so many things OTHER than how a the guy actually pitched. I tend to look at the whole picture, and I'm sure other people are, but it just seems we weigh pitcher wins too heavily.

[bschr682]

Highly agree with that line of thinking Ted. Personally, when voting season pitcher awards the first stats I look at are the opponent batting stats, and then adjust from there based on the more traditional things. Not sure I can give Eduardo Lopez the Nebraska with only 160 innings but honestly he topped my list first as I sit down to do this.

[Ted]

Highly agree with that line of thinking Ted. Personally, when voting season pitcher awards the first stats I look at are the opponent batting stats, and then adjust from there based on the more traditional things. Not sure I can give Eduardo Lopez the Nebraska with only 160 innings but honestly he topped my list first as I sit down to do this.

Holy shit I agree with Brett. Mark it on your calendar. (and maybe I need to re-think my life)

[Ted]

So where's your first place vote for Billy Chapel, Jr., who led the BBA in WAR?

You know Aaron, the more I look at it, the more I hate my JL Nebraska ballot. I started with something close, and over-analyzed it into something terrible. Should always remember that when I change the order that many times, I can't be doing anything good.

[allenr]

I always value controllable metrics vs metrics that are determined by team/teammates. These are individual awards, you shouldn't be over-rewRded for being on a good team.

[Ted]

Highly agree with that line of thinking Ted. Personally, when voting season pitcher awards the first stats I look at are the opponent batting stats, and then adjust from there based on the more traditional things. Not sure I can give Eduardo Lopez the Nebraska with only 160 innings but honestly he topped my list first as I sit down to do this.

That's always my problem with Lopez, too. If he had made a career of going 220+ innings (or hell even 200+), he'd be the one with 5-6 Nebraska's by now.

[7teen]

Simpson for FL Gillstrom!

No. Barerra