The Brewster

Actually, I only have 1 guy over 30 in my minors and he's tearing up AAA for another year. So, it won't affect me regardless. I just honestly can't figure out what the rub is.

udlb58 wrote:

Bumstead wrote:I'm not sure why you care as long as I meet the minor league limits which are forced every sim? If I want a 35 year old 1B at AAA as insurance, I don't see the issue. If I have a prospect that needs to be at AAA, what difference does it make if I move the 35 year old to AA or lower? He's still just one of my players I choose to have in my organization. Heck, if I have 30 year old players in my minors that just allows y'all to hoard another lottery ticket prospect. I don't get the issue, but I don't even know if I'm affected. I have some bad contracts at AAA but I doubt I have much in the way of oldsters below that as I pretty much let them all go in the offseason.

You aren't affected, not even close. Everyone in your org in AA down would fit under the age limit for Rookie that I suggested. We aren't complaining about ages of AAA/AA guys. The problem isn't really even age, it's being able to play your 1st/2nd year professionals in, you know, Rookie-League. But you can't put that 3 contact teenager in Rookie ball because it's stocked full of AA/AAA quality pitchers who will eat him alive. Cutting out players in their upper 20s and above from Rookie-League would (hopefully) help reduce the overall talent in the league and help younger guys actually play.

I actually just realized I wasn't affected. You are making the assumption that your players need to perform well, or even play, to develop in OOTP...One could argue that is not the case even if it is counter-intuitive...

udlb58 wrote:The problem isn't really even age, it's being able to play your 1st/2nd year professionals in, you know, Rookie-League. But you can't put that 3 contact teenager in Rookie ball because it's stocked full of AA/AAA quality pitchers who will eat him alive.

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Bumstead wrote:

udlb58 wrote:

Bumstead wrote:I'm not sure why you care as long as I meet the minor league limits which are forced every sim? If I want a 35 year old 1B at AAA as insurance, I don't see the issue. If I have a prospect that needs to be at AAA, what difference does it make if I move the 35 year old to AA or lower? He's still just one of my players I choose to have in my organization. Heck, if I have 30 year old players in my minors that just allows y'all to hoard another lottery ticket prospect. I don't get the issue, but I don't even know if I'm affected. I have some bad contracts at AAA but I doubt I have much in the way of oldsters below that as I pretty much let them all go in the offseason.

You aren't affected, not even close. Everyone in your org in AA down would fit under the age limit for Rookie that I suggested. We aren't complaining about ages of AAA/AA guys. The problem isn't really even age, it's being able to play your 1st/2nd year professionals in, you know, Rookie-League. But you can't put that 3 contact teenager in Rookie ball because it's stocked full of AA/AAA quality pitchers who will eat him alive. Cutting out players in their upper 20s and above from Rookie-League would (hopefully) help reduce the overall talent in the league and help younger guys actually play.

I actually just realized I wasn't affected. You are making the assumption that your players need to perform well, or even play, to develop in OOTP...One could argue that is not the case even if it is counter-intuitive...

You COULD argue that, but then you'd be contradicting the people who made the game.

Per the OOTP manual on what affects player development

"Challenge: Players respond differently to challenges. Often, a player who is tearing up Double A hitting might not be developing very quickly, because he isn't being challenged. Similarly, putting an overmatched rookie into your major league starting lineup could actually hurt his development."

"Playing Time: Minor league players who get little playing time might not develop as quickly as others. However, major league players and players on a reserve roster develop normally even without playing time."

So yeah, all those overage, overtalented non prospects in rookie league and A ball DO hurt other teams. Like many things in OOTP, the degree of the effect is unclear. Sitting on young prospects who are rated in the 2's and 3's because you don't want to risk them getting crushed by players with AAA caliber ratings in rookie ball is annoying. It's also stupid for the teams that do it, because as I previously said, there are literally 30-40 players just sitting in free agency under the age of 24 who could take the roster spots the overage players would vacate, and those guys could actually bump and turn into something. Why do I know this? Because I look every damn sim. I currently have ten prospects in my system that were free agent signings who i picked up after they bumped and are either legitimate prospects or lottery tickets.


EDIT: To be clear, I'm not talking about old guys in AAA or AA. I have a couple of these. They're roster fillers or emergency guys, I get it.

I try to keep it...

Rookie..under 20
A..20-22
AA..23-25
AAA...no age limit

But there are certain occasions that I have older players in lower levels. Right now I have 37 year old Marcel Mirwald in A-ball. His ratings are league level appropriate. I mainly have him there because my Single A team is a bunch of immature hooligans that need the veteran leadership.

I've rejigged mine a bit. Ages are still trending a little high, but it's better. Some of the old guys are providing leadership, others are just there until contracts run out. I don't think mine's excessive though.

ae37jr wrote:I try to keep it...

Rookie..under 20
A..20-22
AA..23-25
AAA...no age limit

But there are certain occasions that I have older players in lower levels. Right now I have 37 year old Marcel Mirwald in A-ball. His ratings are league level appropriate. I mainly have him there because my Single A team is a bunch of immature hooligans that need the veteran leadership.

Until I sent Jean Girard down last sim, Louisville had no position players over 24 years old in their minor league system...and only seven pitchers between 24 and 27 (all AAA)

I think everyone would get better results from their systems if they got rid of their older minor leaguers

Younger guys have a much better chance of bumping into something useful than old guys

felipe wrote:Until I sent Jean Girard down last sim, Louisville had no position players over 24 years old in their minor league system...and only seven pitchers between 24 and 27 (all AAA)

I think everyone would get better results from their systems if they got rid of their older minor leaguers

Younger guys have a much better chance of bumping into something useful than old guys

This doesn't even matter. It's a non-starter. I understand that we are entering the mid-season doldrums, but let's not invent controversies to keep ourselves occupied.

jiminyhopkins wrote:This doesn't even matter. It's a non-starter. I understand that we are entering the mid-season doldrums, but let's not invent controversies to keep ourselves occupied.

That's like, just your opinion, man.


Marko, I've always liked you and I'm sure you're not meaning to be insulting here, but showing up after a topic has had this many posts with this many owners voicing opinions and then making the statement you did, with no statistical evidence to prove that you are right is frankly just rude as hell and demeaning of other people's concerns. This isn't an "invented controversy". This is at least the third time this has been a topic of discussion since I joined the league, the games manual clearly states there are implications. The only thing we don't know is the magnitude of them They may be minimal, and it may not matter. Or they could be huge.

Uh oh, I sense an old school GBC flame war coming on. Where's Brad when you need him to throw gasoline on the fire?

recte44 wrote:Uh oh, I sense an old school GBC flame war coming on. Where's Brad when you need him to throw gasoline on the fire?

LOL. Wasn't trying to start one. Like I said, Marko seems to think this doesn't matter at all. I just think his way of making that point was a bit poorly worded. It may not matter. I'm just tired of my A ball team having a .300 winning percentage and having all it's players angry EVERY DAMN YEAR. Rookie ball is like 50-50 mediocre year/terrible year, depending on how many guys I hold back from A ball so they don't get slaughtered.

I don't know, I thought I said about the same thing as Marko...maybe not so direct and with a lot longer explanation. I disagree that it affects y'all's prospects and I have had way too many bumpers from guys that barely played to spend much time worrying about AB's for these guys. Marcus can say what he wants, but the "proof" or lack thereof is in pudding. I realize it bothers some of you if some guys have 35 year old pitchers in rookie ball, but it's a disadvantage to the person keeping that player, so I'm confused by the whole annoyance with it.

But, as I have pointed out and as Jacksonville has so eloquently pointed out, I'm not one of the "offenders," but I do encourage everyone to maintain a plethora of 30 somethings in all their minor leagues!

Bumstead wrote:I don't know, I thought I said about the same thing as Marko...maybe not so direct and with a lot longer explanation. I disagree that it affects y'all's prospects and I have had way too many bumpers from guys that barely played to spend much time worrying about AB's for these guys. Marcus can say what he wants, but the "proof" or lack thereof is in pudding. I realize it bothers some of you if some guys have 35 year old pitchers in rookie ball, but it's a disadvantage to the person keeping that player, so I'm confused by the whole annoyance with it.

But, as I have pointed out and as Jacksonville has so eloquently pointed out, I'm not one of the "offenders," but I do encourage everyone to maintain a plethora of 30 somethings in all their minor leagues!

This is the last post I'll make on the subject because I'm bored with saying the same things, and it seems there's enough divided opinion that I'll just have to accept that my low minors levels will never win again and my players will always be pissed off. Not trying to be dramatic, just sensing the futility (until I get annoyed in a season or two and bring it up again.). It's not what Marko said, it was how and timing. You Jeff have been contributing to the discussion, even if I don't agree with you. Maybe it's just a personal quirk but I hate it when someone shows up late to the show and tells everyone they're wasting everyone's time. Knowing Marko, that's probably not what he intended, but that's really how it came a across to me. If you don't care, then don't read it or don't reply. Don't tell everyone else to be quiet because you disagree or are bored.

Ted wrote:

Bumstead wrote:I don't know, I thought I said about the same thing as Marko...maybe not so direct and with a lot longer explanation. I disagree that it affects y'all's prospects and I have had way too many bumpers from guys that barely played to spend much time worrying about AB's for these guys. Marcus can say what he wants, but the "proof" or lack thereof is in pudding. I realize it bothers some of you if some guys have 35 year old pitchers in rookie ball, but it's a disadvantage to the person keeping that player, so I'm confused by the whole annoyance with it.

But, as I have pointed out and as Jacksonville has so eloquently pointed out, I'm not one of the "offenders," but I do encourage everyone to maintain a plethora of 30 somethings in all their minor leagues!

This is the last post I'll make on the subject because I'm bored with saying the same things, and it seems there's enough divided opinion that I'll just have to accept that my low minors levels will never win again and my players will always be pissed off. Not trying to be dramatic, just sensing the futility (until I get annoyed in a season or two and bring it up again.). It's not what Marko said, it was how and timing. You Jeff have been contributing to the discussion, even if I don't agree with you. Maybe it's just a personal quirk but I hate it when someone shows up late to the show and tells everyone they're wasting everyone's time. Knowing Marko, that's probably not what he intended, but that's really how it came a across to me. If you don't care, then don't read it or don't reply. Don't tell everyone else to be quiet because you disagree or are bored.

Fair enough. I'm just trying to lighten the mood anyway. And I say the same things post after post...are you saying that is bad?

I'm one of the guys that had a lot of overage guys at A and R. Just went through and cleaned it out quite a bit. I probably have a few more guys that should be moved but it is a lot better.

Ted wrote:
Marko, I've always liked you and I'm sure you're not meaning to be insulting here, but showing up after a topic has had this many posts with this many owners voicing opinions and then making the statement you did, with no statistical evidence to prove that you are right is frankly just rude as hell and demeaning of other people's concerns. This isn't an "invented controversy". This is at least the third time this has been a topic of discussion since I joined the league, the games manual clearly states there are implications. The only thing we don't know is the magnitude of them They may be minimal, and it may not matter. Or they could be huge.

Woah, sorry bud! I retract my statement. Didn't know it would strike a nerve, lol.

This is pointless!