Important Draft Rules Change

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niles08
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Re: Important Draft Rules Change

Post by niles08 » Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:12 pm

Spiccoli wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:07 pm
JimBob2232 wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:56 pm
niles08 wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:42 pm


I drafted two players that I had no intention of signing, thinking I would be getting comp picks next year when the draft would maybe be better. You can call it "gaming the system" but I didn't have someone I really wanted so, I figured I would just wait until next year and roll the dice on getting a different choice.
Well - for starters - im not sure what comp picks might not be awarded for the next draft (note: I dont think i will get any unless something drastic happens in the second half of the season...so this isnt a homer thing) - but i dont think it is fair to those who might have otherwise have received them.

And yes - there were definitely picks made with the intention to not sign them before the rule change was announced. In addition, there were auto picks which people are now stuck with (this one does effect me).

Not trying to stir up hate and discontent. I just think its best to give any rule change a bit of time before implementing unless there is some super critical reason (i.e. cheating or collusion or something) that requires immediate action.
Well... there were GM's in chat openly stating they had no intention to sign their picks to get a supplemental next year. If that's what you mean.
And I see absolutely nothing wrong with that. The rules state it can be done. The Mets did that this year after they drafted Rocker knowing they'd get a pick next year. Maybe my medical team didn't like my picks.
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Re: Important Draft Rules Change

Post by JimBob2232 » Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:19 pm

Spiccoli wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:07 pm
JimBob2232 wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:56 pm
niles08 wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:42 pm


I drafted two players that I had no intention of signing, thinking I would be getting comp picks next year when the draft would maybe be better. You can call it "gaming the system" but I didn't have someone I really wanted so, I figured I would just wait until next year and roll the dice on getting a different choice.
Well - for starters - im not sure what comp picks might not be awarded for the next draft (note: I dont think i will get any unless something drastic happens in the second half of the season...so this isnt a homer thing) - but i dont think it is fair to those who might have otherwise have received them.

And yes - there were definitely picks made with the intention to not sign them before the rule change was announced. In addition, there were auto picks which people are now stuck with (this one does effect me).

Not trying to stir up hate and discontent. I just think its best to give any rule change a bit of time before implementing unless there is some super critical reason (i.e. cheating or collusion or something) that requires immediate action.
Well... there were GM's in chat openly stating they had no intention to sign their picks to get a supplemental next year. If that's what you mean.
Which was perfectly legal and accepted practice - until we retroactively changed it.

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Re: Important Draft Rules Change

Post by Spiccoli » Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:28 pm

JimBob2232 wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:19 pm
Spiccoli wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:07 pm
JimBob2232 wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:56 pm


Well - for starters - im not sure what comp picks might not be awarded for the next draft (note: I dont think i will get any unless something drastic happens in the second half of the season...so this isnt a homer thing) - but i dont think it is fair to those who might have otherwise have received them.

And yes - there were definitely picks made with the intention to not sign them before the rule change was announced. In addition, there were auto picks which people are now stuck with (this one does effect me).

Not trying to stir up hate and discontent. I just think its best to give any rule change a bit of time before implementing unless there is some super critical reason (i.e. cheating or collusion or something) that requires immediate action.
Well... there were GM's in chat openly stating they had no intention to sign their picks to get a supplemental next year. If that's what you mean.
Which was perfectly legal and accepted practice - until we retroactively changed it.
You asked... I didn't comment either way.
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Re: Important Draft Rules Change

Post by JimBob2232 » Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:29 pm

Spiccoli wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:28 pm

You asked... I didn't comment either way.

I did?

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Re: Important Draft Rules Change

Post by aaronweiner » Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:29 pm

Just to be clear, it affects things because you took guys you don’t want in the draft? Note that you can still do that in round 1, every year if you like.

But what you are doing was having a negative impact on low picking teams more likely to sign their players. This an immediate change. I stated several reasons earlier.

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Re: Important Draft Rules Change

Post by mragland » Mon Sep 20, 2021 4:41 pm

In my case, I punted on my second round pick in order to defer the expense of signing an additional second round draftee until the following year, when my own financial situation would be more favorable. I have no expectation that the draft pool in 2049 will be substantially different. For me, it was purely a financial move.

It troubles me that this rule change was discussed among the board members in the days leading up to the draft. The announcement came down after the third round picks were in, so, while the board could plan their drafts knowing a rule change was, if not imminent, at least contemplated, the rest of the league was none the wiser.

While I very much doubt that the board intended to give itself any advantage here, the rest of the league was disadvantaged nevertheless.

For this reason, I would ask the board for forbearance regarding Rule Change #1, holding off on the change until the 2049 draft.
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Re: Important Draft Rules Change

Post by aaronweiner » Mon Sep 20, 2021 4:52 pm

mragland wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 4:41 pm
It troubles me that this rule change was discussed among the board members in the days leading up to the draft. The announcement came down after the third round picks were in, so, while the board could plan their drafts knowing a rule change was, if not imminent, at least contemplated, the rest of the league was none the wiser.

While I very much doubt that the board intended to give itself any advantage here, the rest of the league was disadvantaged nevertheless.
You do realize you just accused the board of spiteful, selfish collusion and then took it back with "well, they PROBABLY didn't do that," right? Just checking in to see if we're reading the same thing here. Not sure I appreciate the insinuation.

It appears you also drafted players you had no intention of signing. If you are looking for a strategic advantage, you will be happy to know that your drafting them will also prevent other teams from signing them.

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Re: Important Draft Rules Change

Post by mragland » Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:05 pm

aaronweiner wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 4:52 pm
You do realize you just accused the board of spiteful, selfish collusion and then took it back with "well, they PROBABLY didn't do that," right? Just checking in to see if we're reading the same thing here. Not sure I appreciate the insinuation.
My aim was to point out something that the board might have overlooked. If anything, I'm accusing the board of a goof (inadvertently creating an inequitable situation). As near as I can tell, you're all good eggs. When I said that I "very much doubt" you had bad intent, I meant it. I apologize if my meaning was unclear.
aaronweiner wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 4:52 pm
It appears you also drafted players you had no intention of signing. If you are looking for a strategic advantage, you will be happy to know that your drafting them will also prevent other teams from signing them.
The player in question is Dominic Leggott. I chose him specifically to avoid the situation you describe. I didn't think anybody would mind if he were taken off the board. I'll be putting in a good faith effort to sign all my other picks.
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Re: Important Draft Rules Change

Post by aaronweiner » Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:28 pm

mragland wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:05 pm
My aim was to point out something that the board might have overlooked. If anything, I'm accusing the board of a goof (inadvertently creating an inequitable situation). As near as I can tell, you're all good eggs. When I said that I "very much doubt" you had bad intent, I meant it. I apologize if my meaning was unclear.
I could ask why you'd say it at all, but I do appreciate the apology, which is accepted. Thank you.

Listen, we understand you're disappointed at the loss of your R2 rollovers. I was pretty sure this wouldn't make me Mr. Popularity. But:

1) We wanted to avoid the potential for a 2049 or any other year disaster draft in which half the teams throw back their R2s and create a logjam in the second round. This effort would not only be potentially pointless since second rounders are often lottery tickets even in fairly good drafts, but hurt rebuilding teams and lessen the value of sandwich picks. We saw the potential for that this year and immediately balked at the idea.

2) Each second rounder is also four hours on the clock, and we didn't want a draft where the second round might take a week by itself. 48 x 4 = 192 hours; one week is 168 hours, the clock doesn't run overnight and we haven't included S2s in the calculation yet. That's a logistical nightmare with the way we sim.

So we were looking to avoid two looming issues immediately with this rule taking effect immediately, which is why it is. In part it's why we're looking to try to somewhat reduce and redirect sandwich picks, to help rebuilding teams and to lessen the long slog of the draft. That's the goal anyway.

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Re: Important Draft Rules Change

Post by RonCo » Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:33 pm

aaronweiner wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:28 pm
2) Each second rounder is also four hours on the clock, and we didn't want a draft where the second round might take a week by itself. 48 x 4 = 192 hours; one week is 168 hours, the clock doesn't run overnight and we haven't included S2s in the calculation yet. That's a logistical nightmare with the way we sim.
Which reminds me, I think we need to consider cutting that in half, anyway. Or at least redesigning the time-flow up and down the chain.

Regardless, carry on. :)
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Re: Important Draft Rules Change

Post by aaronweiner » Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:34 pm

RonCo wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:33 pm
aaronweiner wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:28 pm
2) Each second rounder is also four hours on the clock, and we didn't want a draft where the second round might take a week by itself. 48 x 4 = 192 hours; one week is 168 hours, the clock doesn't run overnight and we haven't included S2s in the calculation yet. That's a logistical nightmare with the way we sim.
Which reminds me, I think we need to consider cutting that in half, anyway. Or at least redesigning the time-flow up and down the chain.

Regardless, carry on. :)
I did have that exact thought while I was writing that, now that you mention it (was thinking 3 hours though).

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Re: Important Draft Rules Change

Post by RonCo » Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:37 pm

While we're at it, we could go back to 20 rounds rather than 25. I'm not sure when that changed.
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Re: Important Draft Rules Change

Post by aaronweiner » Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:38 pm

I think it was when we added the Short-A league.

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Re: Important Draft Rules Change

Post by RonCo » Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:44 pm

I'm fine with keeping it 25 (I mean, sure give me more guys), but it seems unnecessary give the overall flow of players and International Complexes.
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Re: Important Draft Rules Change

Post by recte44 » Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:07 pm

Agreed

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Re: Important Draft Rules Change

Post by chicoruiz » Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:15 pm

So... If we cut down the draft from 25 rounds to 20, does that mean that the game will generate a lesser number of 20-rated players, or will it mean 20% fewer 65s, 20% fewer 60s, and on down the line?
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Re: Important Draft Rules Change

Post by jiminyhopkins » Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:04 pm

While we are busy making changes, which is indeed the Gov boards job... can we implement draft pick trades or will OOTP just not support it?
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Re: Important Draft Rules Change

Post by recte44 » Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:28 pm

Hard no on that

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Re: Important Draft Rules Change

Post by jiminyhopkins » Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:33 am

recte44 wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:28 pm
Hard no on that
I'll ask in another way... is that your sentiment or is it not possible within the OOTP sim engine?
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Re: Important Draft Rules Change

Post by usnspecialist » Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:27 am

mragland wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 4:41 pm
In my case, I punted on my second round pick in order to defer the expense of signing an additional second round draftee until the following year, when my own financial situation would be more favorable. I have no expectation that the draft pool in 2049 will be substantially different. For me, it was purely a financial move.

It troubles me that this rule change was discussed among the board members in the days leading up to the draft. The announcement came down after the third round picks were in, so, while the board could plan their drafts knowing a rule change was, if not imminent, at least contemplated, the rest of the league was none the wiser.

While I very much doubt that the board intended to give itself any advantage here, the rest of the league was disadvantaged nevertheless.

For this reason, I would ask the board for forbearance regarding Rule Change #1, holding off on the change until the 2049 draft.
jumping in here on the timing issue. I went to the GB forum and the very first post regarding the multi-year comp picks was made on Saturday the 18th at 1147am eastern, and the initial post on ending the rollover for 2nd and 3rd rounders was Sunday morning at 1215 am eastern. If i am reading the discord draft history timing correctly, that would have been while boise was on the clock with the 11th pick of round 3. All of the GB had made their 2nd round picks by that point and Long Beach had made their 3rd rounder at the point it was even mentioned, not even factoring in time for it to be agreed to.

EDIT: without going into specifics publicly, i will say it was not unanimous to implement this immediately either.
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