"7" for 70s- HOF Snubs

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"7" for 70s- HOF Snubs

Post by usnspecialist » Fri May 08, 2020 6:58 am

So i decided to take a look at the HOF tables i havae and look at which players are NOT in, but should be. The easy comparison metrics i will point out for everyone is WAR, WAR7 and JAWS in comparison to all of the players in their position currently in the HOF although i have also included a snapshot of their career numbers vs the mean for their position in the various offensive statistics. The list starts from the bottom and works its way up to the top and ultimately ends with the biggest current BBA HOF snub.

T7 RPs Lionel Sanguinacco and Esteban Velasquez.
RP.png

JAWS: 4/8 (Velasquez), 4/8 (Sanguinacco)
WAR: 4/8 (Velasquez), 4/8 (Sanguinacco)
WAR7: 2/8 (Velasquez), 3/8 (Sanguinacco)

Cheating a bit here and putting 8 guys total because while they got there in rather different ways, these guys have very similar credentials and deserve to be mentioned together. While I am traditionally very anti-reliever for HOF purposes, how a guy like Sanguinacco can not be in is confusing even to me. The guy was quite simply one of the most dominant relievers of his time and hitters could really do nothing but pray against him. Velasquez did not get much support in his time on the ballot, but if you look at the numbers they are actually much kinder to him than maybe the voters gave him credit for.

6. CF Dash Kelly
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Primarily known as a slap hitting speedster, Kelly lived up to his name by being only the 3rd man to steal over 1000 bases and holding down the #2 all time spot on that list for over 30 years. Kelly also played a superb CF throughout his career, with 5 Zimmers and 7 different seasons of 20+ ZR (with 2 of those over 30), which is made even more incredible when you realize that ZR wasn’t even kept during his first 4 years in the league).

5. 3B Robert Jowers
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JAWS: 4/10
WAR7: 5/10
WAR: 4/10
Similar profile to the next guy on this list, although noticeably better on the offensive side. What we are seeing between those two is a classic case of 3B being under-represented in the HOF, and the omission of Robert Jowers is one that has been pointing out by his advocates over the years as an injustice that needs to be rectified and unlike some of those cases, the numbers seem to support this one.

4. 3B Diego Moreno
Moreno.png
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JAWS: 4/10
WAR7: 7/10
WAR: 4/10
Regarded as one of the best glove men in the history of the BBA (5 Zimmers and a whopping 188.1 ZR at 3B do not lie), Moreno was capable enough with the bat in his hand to stick around and pile up some respectable numbers as well. Make no mistake about it though, his HOF case rests primarily on the back of his sublime play in the field, which pushed his advanced numbers high enough to rank in the top half among his 3B brethren.

3. 2B Valeri Kharalmov
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JAWS: 4/12
WAR7: 4/12
WAR: 4/12
Just barely missing election in 2042, Kharlamov is absolutely worthy of being enshrined as he would be in the top 1/3 of all HOF 2B by most measures. The obvious top 2 of Charles Puckett and Douglas Newhouse dominate the rankings, but Kharlamov compares very well to the rest of them. Often regarded as a stat accumulator on the account of having played 21 seasons in the BBA, seeing him having the 4th best peak of all HOF 2B is noteworthy for how great he was in his early years.

2. LF Mike Love
LF.png
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JAWS: 4/11
WAR7: 6/11
WAR: 4/11
The only explanation I can find for this one is that love does not fit the classic profile of a power hitting COF, but man he did everything else well, including piling up 5 Zimmer awards in a row early in his career and putting up double digit ZR at age 35. Love is the classic example of an under the radar player who was never flashy and probably under-appreciated at the time, but who you look back on and go “man that guy was just fucking good”.

1. SP Voo Fowler
SP.png
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JAWS: 9/38
WAR7: 2/38
WAR: 16/38
One of the forgotten giants of the early BBA days, Fowler started his BBA career at 28 and only lasted 9 full seasons as a starter before winding down his career in the pen but holy hell were they some incredible seasons. If you look at his rankings in comparison to his the SP that are already enshrined (minus Steve Nebraska who is a specifically modified freak of nature), then he has the 2nd highest peak of all time and is in the top 1/4 of JAWS and top 1/2 of WAR. Potentially even more mind-boggling than his HOF snub is the fact that at age 34 he put up a 13.3 WAR season (12th all time, with 9 of those of him belonging to Steve Nebraska) and finished with a 15-19 record. Get that man some run support and give that man some HOF love.
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Re: "7" for 70s- HOF Snubs

Post by recte44 » Fri May 08, 2020 9:52 am

I have put all these guys up at some point.
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Re: "7" for 70s- HOF Snubs

Post by usnspecialist » Fri May 08, 2020 10:22 am

recte44 wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 9:52 am
I have put all these guys up at some point.
i am sure, although have all been under the new "yes/no" system that naturally allows for an better chance for people to make it in. Also by the very nature of HOF voting there are always going to be "snubs", it just depends on how egregious.
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Re: "7" for 70s- HOF Snubs

Post by 7teen » Fri May 08, 2020 11:22 am

I'd say most of these guys have been involved in a yes/no vote and still missed out.

That used to be my argument for John Rasmussen or Jessie Wright's "snubbing". I know Rasmussen got added as a veteran vote on a Yes/No ballot and still fell short. So there went my theory.

You should do the top 7 guys who should NOT be in the Hall! haha
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Re: "7" for 70s- HOF Snubs

Post by HoosierVic » Fri May 08, 2020 11:30 am

I'll vote for Voo on the basis of that name alone.

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Re: "7" for 70s- HOF Snubs

Post by usnspecialist » Fri May 08, 2020 11:37 am

7teen wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 11:22 am
I'd say most of these guys have been involved in a yes/no vote and still missed out.

That used to be my argument for John Rasmussen or Jessie Wright's "snubbing". I know Rasmussen got added as a veteran vote on a Yes/No ballot and still fell short. So there went my theory.

You should do the top 7 guys who should NOT be in the Hall! haha
there is an idea... And yes i had to give you a little shoutout with the robert jowers reference as his "advocate". Rasmussen has a case, but by the WAR based stats there are a few others that are slightly better.
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Re: "7" for 70s- HOF Snubs

Post by 7teen » Fri May 08, 2020 4:32 pm

usnspecialist wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 11:37 am
7teen wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 11:22 am
I'd say most of these guys have been involved in a yes/no vote and still missed out.

That used to be my argument for John Rasmussen or Jessie Wright's "snubbing". I know Rasmussen got added as a veteran vote on a Yes/No ballot and still fell short. So there went my theory.

You should do the top 7 guys who should NOT be in the Hall! haha
there is an idea... And yes i had to give you a little shoutout with the robert jowers reference as his "advocate". Rasmussen has a case, but by the WAR based stats there are a few others that are slightly better.
If I recall, Jowers made it to the post-season an insane number of times in a row. I think. It seemed, without doing the research, he just kept making it to the post-season, with Baltimore or whoever he was with.

Understood on Rasmussen and no gripe from me if he's not top 7. He's probably a top guy in Hall of Fame Lobby of the Pantheon! haha

Jessie Wright probably has the better WAR5 or WAR7 numbers than Rasmussen and has the hardware to go with it.
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Re: "7" for 70s- HOF Snubs

Post by CTBrewCrew » Fri May 08, 2020 10:07 pm

Perhaps Sanguinacco's 101 losses turned people off - dunno? If you look at this guy (based on #s) alone I'd vote for him.
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Re: "7" for 70s- HOF Snubs

Post by RonCo » Sat May 09, 2020 1:05 am

This list has no gravitas after it left LaLoosh off it.
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