Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Jon Mick

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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Jon Mick

Post by aaronweiner » Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:35 am

Your vitriolic hyperbole is noted.

Note that neither of those two words means "I think you're right."

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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Jon Mick

Post by Ted » Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:46 am

aaronweiner wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:35 am
Your vitriolic hyperbole is noted.

Note that neither of those two words means "I think you're right."
What hyperbole? Vitriol. Yes. Hyperbole. No. You tried to assert I was saying that these run of the mill good players aren't good enough to be in the Hall of Fame because I was holding them to an élite inner circle standard. THAT, sir, is hyperbole.

My statements were all based on a sensible comparison of real things. These are good, not great, not even close to Hall of Fame players. Rhodes alone is worth discussion because he's a "unicorn". A unicorn at a not particularly valuable talent, but a unicorn nonetheless.

Mick and Dempsey are not even close to Hall of Fame. The vitriol comes from utterly despairing fatigue at people who can't seem to figure out that a video game being run by people who choose suboptimal winning strategies that would never happen in real life, allows for accumulation of counting stats in a way that makes them look impressive, but they aren't.

Mick isn't valuable because homers are both easier to hit in the BBA than in real life, and we have so many 2B and SS and CF clubbing 30-40 homers that a DH who really only homers well just isn't that valuable.

Dempsey is a DH who was shoehorned in the COF (which by the way is traditionally a position that requires élite offense for HOF consideration) who has a sub .800 OPS AND couldn't defend at all.

Rhodes is a unicorn. There is no player like him in real life. He is a video game freak, but not a particularly valuable one.

No hyperbole. Just facts. But if people want to keep coming with the absurd, I can keep up with the vitriolic incredulous reactions.
Last edited by Ted on Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Jon Mick

Post by Ted » Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:50 am

aaronweiner wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:35 am
Your vitriolic hyperbole is noted.

Note that neither of those two words means "I think you're right."
Dude, I just found a bunch of players with the same career WAR as these guys, and you called it hyperbole.

They have less career WAR than Harold Baines.

And before the anti WAR or "You can't only consider WAR" people show up, you're right. And I'm not. I'm brining it up because even if you think it's inaccurate, it would have to be off by like TWENTY-FIVE for these guys to have real cases. As in 2.5 and 5 would have to be considered the same thing. It would have to be that inaccurate.

It would be like trying to say a guy with 250 homers is the same as 500. Or 1500 hits is the same as 3000.
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Jon Mick

Post by aaronweiner » Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:39 am

Well done! Your hyperbole has now become more hyperbolic.

Your hyperbole has inspired me to write a feature about scorned people with counting stats and how insane that is. Working on it now.

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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Jon Mick

Post by Ted » Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:43 am

aaronweiner wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:39 am
Your vitriolic hyperbole is noted.

Note that neither of those two words means "I think you're right."



Well done! Your hyperbole has now become more hyperbolic.

Your hyperbole has inspired me to write a feature about scorned people with counting stats and how insane that is. Working on it now.
I like how you have decided to attack me personally for disagreeing with you and having a strong opinion. Cool stuff. Good to know you can take people disagreeing with you. Good look for a governing board member, too.
Last edited by Ted on Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Jon Mick

Post by aaronweiner » Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:46 am

Ted wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:15 am
You talking about putting Gary Templeton, or Ander Ethier, or Cliff Floyd, or Delino DeShields, or Willie MeGee, or Chase Headley in the Hall of Fame. That's what mid 20's WAR is. Yes, they can't all be Steve Nebraska or Chip Puckett. But they can at least be elite players. Fuck, lets just put everyone in.
If you literally add up the home runs from all six of those players they don't add up to Jon Mick's total.

At least a couple of them wouldn't have added up to Jon Mick's two best seasons.

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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Jon Mick

Post by Ted » Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:52 am

aaronweiner wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:46 am
Ted wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:15 am
You talking about putting Gary Templeton, or Ander Ethier, or Cliff Floyd, or Delino DeShields, or Willie MeGee, or Chase Headley in the Hall of Fame. That's what mid 20's WAR is. Yes, they can't all be Steve Nebraska or Chip Puckett. But they can at least be elite players. Fuck, lets just put everyone in.
If you literally add up the home runs from all six of those players they don't add up to Jon Mick's total.

I mean, okay? That's the argument for counting stats? How many other players we can add? Why do some counting stats matter and not others? If you're good at just one thing? That's all it takes? One thing? In a way that only exists in a video game? A thing that is not as valuable in real life, because of the way we set up the video game?

I'm not making this up. I literally did an entire analysis of the relative rarity of overall homers in the BBA. They aren't that tough. Mick is maybe just barely at the equivalent of MLB's 500 homers. He's probably just below it. And there have been multiple discussion about 1B and DH WAR in the BBA being low relative to real life. The reason for this that again, home runs are so easy to hit in the BBA, particularly by non traditional power positions.

So yes, I'm not impressed by Mick's homers. Because if you take them in context of the BBA, and realize that's his only real skill, he's not that impressive. Counting stats only matter in the context of the league they are acquired in. BBA context and MLB context are not the same.

They are not the same because we have a different set of player skills, and we use players differently.
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Jon Mick

Post by aaronweiner » Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:06 am

Okay. So you can read my article later, and you can decide to disagree with it.

I'll mark you down for "disagree."

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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Jon Mick

Post by RonCo » Thu Feb 04, 2021 6:31 pm

This will be Mick's 4th season on the ballot.
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Jon Mick

Post by bcslouck » Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:25 pm

RonCo wrote:
Thu Feb 04, 2021 6:31 pm
This will be Moreland's 4th season on the ballot.
Mick's?

Can't remember on him. I know he has good metrics. So maybe?
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Jon Mick

Post by RonCo » Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:09 pm

Oops. :)
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Jon Mick

Post by crobillard » Fri Feb 12, 2021 8:06 pm

I liked Rhodes, but I don’t really like Mick as much.

:)

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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Jon Mick

Post by CTBrewCrew » Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:15 pm

Hes a Madison boy - nuff said 😜 i know he wont get in - but i
This is a homer vote
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Jon Mick

Post by usnspecialist » Wed May 19, 2021 1:17 pm

Bump for 2047 discussion
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Jon Mick

Post by bcslouck » Wed May 19, 2021 1:30 pm

Every post I have on here is I can't remember my vote on him. And I still can't. Which probably means I have never voted for him.
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Jon Mick

Post by HerbD » Thu May 20, 2021 6:23 pm

Interesting thread to read, but no
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Jon Mick

Post by aaronweiner » Thu May 20, 2021 7:07 pm

Still a yes for me.

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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Jon Mick

Post by RonCo » Thu Aug 19, 2021 11:54 pm

Another guy slowly edging up the scoreboard. We have to wonder if Kate might be assigned a task to loosen a few ... er ... votes. Mick has two more shots.
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Jon Mick

Post by 7teen » Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:56 am

Why not make a late case for Mr. Mick....

He's 15th all time in RBI and 18th all-time in Homeruns. He's the highest ranked player on both lists NOT in the Hall of Fame currently. Only YOU can change that!
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Jon Mick

Post by scottsdale_joe » Thu Aug 26, 2021 9:51 am

7teen wrote:
Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:56 am
Why not make a late case for Mr. Mick....

He's 15th all time in RBI and 18th all-time in Homeruns. He's the highest ranked player on both lists NOT in the Hall of Fame currently. Only YOU can change that!
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