Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Jose Ornelas

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Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Jose Ornelas

Post by RonCo » Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:40 pm

Here's the place to talk about the career of: Juan Jose Ornelas
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Starting Pitcher

Active Career: 2021-2035 (15 seasons)
188-134, 3.64 ERA, 2668 K, 65.4 WAR
Nebraska Award: 2031
Zimmer Diamond Glove Award: 2023, 2026, 2031
5-Time All-Star

Hall of Fame Metrics: (average HoF)
JAWS: 57.7 (72)
Black Ink: 22 (34)
Gray Ink: 182 (162)
HOF Standards: 37 (49)
HOF Monitor: 124 (125)
# Combined with Nelson Ramirez, Ornelas made the match to one of the most powerful 1-2 duos in the league for many years. Led the league in wins in 2022, and 2031, and in WAR in 2028 and 2031. A graceful athlete, he could also field his position, which is often an under-appreciated talent.
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Jaun Jose Ornelas

Post by bcslouck » Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:38 pm

He's close for sure.
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Jose Ornelas

Post by 7teen » Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:00 pm

Some very very good players for discussion for sure.

I'm starting to think I'm more picky than most. I prefer small halls over larger ones.
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Jose Ornelas

Post by RonCo » Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:09 pm

For my sensibilities, of the two Birmingham/San Antonio guys, Nelson Ramirez has the stronger case.

I like that we're getting to guys I actually lived with a bit, though.
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Jose Ornelas

Post by bcslouck » Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:10 pm

I think he's close, but he'll be down on my list with all the players coming up. The HOF metrics are pretty good, but some of the counting stats aren't the best. Hall of Very Good more than likely.
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Jose Ornelas

Post by scottsdale_joe » Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:40 pm

I think maybe not.
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Jose Ornelas

Post by 7teen » Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:25 pm

scottsdale_joe wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:40 pm
I think maybe not.
I feel like I've gotten my 300+ post count taken care of for the 2036 season today.....
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Jose Ornelas

Post by scottsdale_joe » Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:18 pm

7teen wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:25 pm
scottsdale_joe wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:40 pm
I think maybe not.
I feel like I've gotten my 300+ post count taken care of for the 2036 season today.....
:dancefool:
:thumbup:
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Jose Ornelas

Post by RonCo » Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:28 pm

7teen wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:25 pm
scottsdale_joe wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:40 pm
I think maybe not.
I feel like I've gotten my 300+ post count taken care of for the 2036 season today.....
Only about 13%.
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Jose Ornelas

Post by usnspecialist » Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:11 am

the pitching version of mike love for me. Thought long and hard but voted no this time around. Could change in the future though.
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Jose Ornelas

Post by RonCo » Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:48 am

Ornelas received 28% of the ballot last year.
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Jose Ornelas

Post by RonCo » Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:12 pm

Ornelas received 24% of the vote last year. He has five seasons left on the ballot.
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Jose Ornelas

Post by bcslouck » Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:32 am

Still close. I can't remember what I voted previously. :headscratch:
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Jose Ornelas

Post by RonCo » Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:10 pm

I think he was kind of my last guy in on the ballot last year...I suspect I'll vote for him again. Probably better than his numbers, having played on a set of not great teams during his prime years. This is a thing I think makes voting tough. If Ornelas had his same base performance, but had pitched on Vegas Juggernauts, he's probably have 240-250 wins rather than 188. We're moderately good sometimes at removing credit for wins (saves, RBI, etc.) because the guy played on a good team, but we struggle to add back the value that a guy's counting numbers got "hit" by playing for struggling teams.

During his career, Ornelas played on only four teams that were .500 or better, and along the way he registered a 188-134 record.

His certainly is an interesting case.
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Jose Ornelas

Post by niles08 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:16 am

This is a tough one for me which typically means I will be voting no. Players who get elected should be very close to no brainers.
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Jose Ornelas

Post by usnspecialist » Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:58 pm

Here is the stat breakdown of Juan Jose Ornelas compared to all starting pitchers on the ballot this year (both individually and against the total mean). Players are sorted by total JAWS score.The mean listed does NOT include anyone on the ballot, just guys who have actually been elected to the HOF (and are not named Steve Nebraska).
SP 2039.PNG
Juan Jose Ornelas 2039.PNG
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Jose Ornelas

Post by RonCo » Sun Sep 22, 2019 6:21 pm

Ornelas received 25% of the vote last season. He has three seasons left.
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Jose Ornelas

Post by RonCo » Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:23 pm

Ornelas received 29 % of the vote last season. He has one more left.
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Jose Ornelas

Post by aaronweiner » Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:22 am

Nelson Ramirez was mind-bogglingly obvious.

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