Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Paul Scholes

[RonCo]

Here's the place to talk about the career of:

Paul Scholes

Catcher

Active Career: 2018-2037 (20 seasons)
1,976 Hits, 98 HR, 699 RBI, .266/.324/.519, 36.6 WAR
Landis Memorial Winner - 2033
7-Zimmer Diamond Glove Winner
All-Star

Hall of Fame Metrics: (average HoF)
JAWS: 31.2 (43)
Black Ink: 0 (22)
Gray Ink: 0 (109)
HOF Standards: 29 (53)
HOF Monitor: 95 (125)
# Scholes is going to have an interesting candidacy, because if you look at his bat you're not going to see a particularly compelling case. Kind of league-average at best. But bake into the equation that he's a catcher and that league average (at best) bat is maybe a bit better, then toss in the fact that Scholes was a guy who controlled the game from behind the plate perhaps better than any catcher in his generation (as 7 Zimmer awards would say), and you've got a totally different conversation. I'm not sure what to do with him right now, but that's why we have these threads, right?


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[Ted]

There are 50 WAR C's that should probably be in that aren't. Scholes isn't close to those guys.

[felipe]

I disagree

He’s a generational catcher

He was worth a half run a game by himself to a pitching staff

It’s impossible to overstate just how good he was

That being said - I can think of other positions players who made the Hall in RL due to their glove - but is there a catcher?

I’ll have to do some research

[Ted]

I disagree

He’s a generational catcher

He was worth a half run a game by himself to a pitching staff

It’s impossible to overstate just how good he was

That being said - I can think of other positions players who made the Hall in RL due to their glove - but is there a catcher?

I’ll have to do some research

If we could measure this better, I'd probably be on board. I just think since we can't, Scholes isn't a hill i'm going to die one. I think I'd have better luck trying to get people to get the 55ish WAR catchers in.

[felipe]

Fuck that

Most of those guys were only there for their bay

They would never get that many appearances behind the plate if this ‘was real’

It’s the one thing that OOTP doesn’t really get right

[Ted]

Fuck that

Most of those guys were only there for their bay

They would never get that many appearances behind the plate if this ‘was real’

It’s the one thing that OOTP doesn’t really get right

I don't know man. The trend is this game is for the good hitters to also be good defenders. I'd have to look. They weren't Scholes good, but not many are. You don't have to sell me on Scholes' value. You're talking to a guy who is playing Chip Saunders still despite his 60ish wRC+

[felipe]

You should trade me Sarge

[felipe]

Ray Schalk

[bcslouck]

Gut says no.

[RonCo]

This is an area I'm evolving on. Given work I've done for years and that Tyler has posted that corroborates it, I'm certain that catcher defense is a pretty big value in OOTP...bigger than WAR will capture. I agree with Stu that Scholes was a generational defensive talent. At some question is how much OOTP captures, and how much it's changed over the versions. But in the end, the HoF is whatever we say the HoF will be. So this one is interesting.

I'll probably vote for him for a season or two at least, just to see what the league says after thinking about it in the end.

[Ted]

I was thinking no, but I've changed my mind. I'm not sure Stu's claim that he was worth half a run a game at one point isn't valid. I think it's come down some, but I remember something similar the the early years of Saunders. And Scholes played more during those older versions. What I'm getting that, is that for a 3-4 year run, Saunders catcher era (not the best stat, I know) was always 3-4 tenths of a run better than his backup, and those guys were rated at 6's and 7's. So let's look at that. If that is real, let's say .30 runs per game, with 110 starts. That's 33 runs or around 3.3 wins a season. You do that for ten seasons and you have the equivalent of 33 WAR. It's an enormous uncaptured amount.

[felipe]

for what its worth, its not only his fantastic catching fielding ratings that I feel made him so valuable

I have to believe that his personality traits of leadership, intelligence, work ethic, all played a role in making him a great defensive catcher

[niles08]

Scholes was ironically enough my catcher in Indy when I took over in 2030 and 2031. He never hit what an average player would hit and I can't vote him in on defense only. I won't vote any player in only based on their glove.

Sorry Scholes.