The Brewster

Here's the place to talk about the career of: Juan Pablo
Second Base

Active Career: 2020-2035 (16 seasons)
2728 hits, 265 HR, 1087 RBI, .297/.353/.454 358 SB, 61.6 WAR
4-Time Charles Puckett Golden Bat
4-time Zimmer Diamond Glove
3-Time All-Star

Hall of Fame Metrics: (average HoF)
JAWS: 50.4 (58)
Black Ink: 0 (22)
Gray Ink: 116 (105)
HOF Standards: 51 (53)
HOF Monitor: 61 (123)
# Look up consistently good in a Wiki someplace and you should find a picture of Juan Pablo. It's actually hard to say he had a peak. Just guess 5 WAR and you're close. Of course, the problem therein is that means he had very little time as truly elite--a story borne out in his ink tests. One of the more interesting cases in a class full of stars.

If he was a better 2B, he's a lock. Even though he played there more, to me, he's a 1B. And that knocks him down for me. Damn fine hitter though.

Four time best hitter.
That says something.
Does it say enough?
Dunno. Requires thought.

bcslouck wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:18 am

If he was a better 2B, he's a lock. Even though he played there more, to me, he's a 1B. And that knocks him down for me. Damn fine hitter though.

This!

If all of his hits came as a 2B, he'd be the all-time hits leader at the position. But he spent pretty much 50% of his career at 1B which I think knocks him out. He doesn't get in.

The position split is certainly something to keep in mind.

For some reason he reminds me a Seinfeld episode.

Juan Pablo received 21% of the vote last season.

Moved up a touch to 24% of the vote last season. He has five years left.

Still a no for me. Same reason as above.

This is a no from me. He is not a hall of Famer in my book. He is a good player, but not among the elite ever to play.

Here is the stat breakdown of Juan Pablo compared to all 2nd basemen (both individually and against the total mean). Players are sorted by total JAWS score, and any bolded names are on the HOF ballot this year. The mean listed does NOT include anyone on the ballot, just guys who have actually been elected to the HOF.

So Pablo actually looks a LOT better than I thought, but then I remember that he was a 1B a LOT, and his numbers wouldn't be as green compared to that group. Fred? Insight?

As a 2B, he's a lock. As a 1B, he's questionable. Wouldn't say he's a hard No compared to some guys that are in already.

I'd say yes. If you are a counting stats person, there are only 2 players with more hits that are not in the HOF. The fact that he played part of his career at 2B helps. 4 time zimmer helps (+112 ZR at 1B). A little bit of speed. A little bit of power. I think he tips the scales and gets in.

Still a no from me.

Ted wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:46 pm

So Pablo actually looks a LOT better than I thought, but then I remember that he was a 1B a LOT, and his numbers wouldn't be as green compared to that group. Fred? Insight?

I have nothing in particular to provide that hasn't already been stated. I love the guy to death, he's right up there on my 'Imaginary Characters who I have Man Crushes on' list and in my obviously intensely biased opinion he deserves to be in.

The only thing I find interesting is that people are deciding he's a no because he played 1B a bunch. How would we feel if he was a full-time 2B his whole career and finished with a ZR around -100 or -150? Even -200 wouldn't be out of the question with his defensive rating deterioration. His offensive numbers would be all earned while playing 2B, sure, but would it help his HoF case? Would two less seasons at 1B have helped his case?

Rubaboo wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:54 am

How would we feel if he was a full-time 2B his whole career and finished with a ZR around -100 or -150? Even -200 wouldn't be out of the question with his defensive rating deterioration. His offensive numbers would be all earned while playing 2B, sure, but would it help his HoF case? Would two less seasons at 1B have helped his case?

These are the fun questions...alternately, if he's played his whole career at 1B, how would he feel to us?

Looking at 1B numbers, if Juan Pablo doesn't really fit...so if he hadn't ever played second base for some time, we probably wouldn't even be having a discussion about him...but since he played 2B for a little while, he's actually in the conversation.

Your call on what that means.

Fixed the link in the OP

The joy of excel is that it is fairly easy to plug and play data... Here is Juan Pablo as compared to all 1B currently in the hall.