Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Pablo
- RonCo
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Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Pablo
Here's the place to talk about the career of: Juan Pablo
Second Base
Active Career: 2020-2035 (16 seasons)
2728 hits, 265 HR, 1087 RBI, .297/.353/.454 358 SB, 61.6 WAR
4-Time Charles Puckett Golden Bat
4-time Zimmer Diamond Glove
3-Time All-Star
Hall of Fame Metrics: (average HoF)
JAWS: 50.4 (58)
Black Ink: 0 (22)
Gray Ink: 116 (105)
HOF Standards: 51 (53)
HOF Monitor: 61 (123)
# Look up consistently good in a Wiki someplace and you should find a picture of Juan Pablo. It's actually hard to say he had a peak. Just guess 5 WAR and you're close. Of course, the problem therein is that means he had very little time as truly elite--a story borne out in his ink tests. One of the more interesting cases in a class full of stars.
Second Base
Active Career: 2020-2035 (16 seasons)
2728 hits, 265 HR, 1087 RBI, .297/.353/.454 358 SB, 61.6 WAR
4-Time Charles Puckett Golden Bat
4-time Zimmer Diamond Glove
3-Time All-Star
Hall of Fame Metrics: (average HoF)
JAWS: 50.4 (58)
Black Ink: 0 (22)
Gray Ink: 116 (105)
HOF Standards: 51 (53)
HOF Monitor: 61 (123)
# Look up consistently good in a Wiki someplace and you should find a picture of Juan Pablo. It's actually hard to say he had a peak. Just guess 5 WAR and you're close. Of course, the problem therein is that means he had very little time as truly elite--a story borne out in his ink tests. One of the more interesting cases in a class full of stars.
- bcslouck
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Pablo
If he was a better 2B, he's a lock. Even though he played there more, to me, he's a 1B. And that knocks him down for me. Damn fine hitter though.
Brandon Slouck
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Pablo
Four time best hitter.
That says something.
Does it say enough?
Dunno. Requires thought.
That says something.
Does it say enough?
Dunno. Requires thought.
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Pablo
This!
If all of his hits came as a 2B, he'd be the all-time hits leader at the position. But he spent pretty much 50% of his career at 1B which I think knocks him out. He doesn't get in.
Chris Wilson
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Pablo
The position split is certainly something to keep in mind.
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Pablo
Moved up a touch to 24% of the vote last season. He has five years left.
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Pablo
Still a no for me. Same reason as above.
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Pablo
Here is the stat breakdown of Juan Pablo compared to all 2nd basemen (both individually and against the total mean). Players are sorted by total JAWS score, and any bolded names are on the HOF ballot this year. The mean listed does NOT include anyone on the ballot, just guys who have actually been elected to the HOF.
Randy Weigand
Havana Sugar Kings/San Fernando Bears: 32-50 (1608-1481)
Des Moines Kernels: 52-
League Champion- 34
JL Champion- 34
FL Champion- 36, 37
JL Southern- 34
FL Pacific- 37, 39
Wild Card- 33, 35, 36, 40, 43
Havana Sugar Kings/San Fernando Bears: 32-50 (1608-1481)
Des Moines Kernels: 52-
League Champion- 34
JL Champion- 34
FL Champion- 36, 37
JL Southern- 34
FL Pacific- 37, 39
Wild Card- 33, 35, 36, 40, 43
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Pablo
So Pablo actually looks a LOT better than I thought, but then I remember that he was a 1B a LOT, and his numbers wouldn't be as green compared to that group. Fred? Insight?
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Pablo
As a 2B, he's a lock. As a 1B, he's questionable. Wouldn't say he's a hard No compared to some guys that are in already.
Chris Wilson
LB Surfers 95-96
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Madison Wolves 99-2039
JL MW: 99-2009, 17, 20, 21
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FL WC: 31, 33
BBA Champs: 04, 09
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FL Pacific: 50
FL WC: 49, 51
FL Champs: 49, 51
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LB Surfers 95-96
FL Pac Champs: 95
Madison Wolves 99-2039
JL MW: 99-2009, 17, 20, 21
JL WC: 12
JL: 01, 04, 09, 12
FL Heartland: 32
FL WC: 31, 33
BBA Champs: 04, 09
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FL Pacific: 50
FL WC: 49, 51
FL Champs: 49, 51
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Pablo
I'd say yes. If you are a counting stats person, there are only 2 players with more hits that are not in the HOF. The fact that he played part of his career at 2B helps. 4 time zimmer helps (+112 ZR at 1B). A little bit of speed. A little bit of power. I think he tips the scales and gets in.
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Pablo
Still a no from me.
Brandon Slouck
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Pablo
I have nothing in particular to provide that hasn't already been stated. I love the guy to death, he's right up there on my 'Imaginary Characters who I have Man Crushes on' list and in my obviously intensely biased opinion he deserves to be in.
The only thing I find interesting is that people are deciding he's a no because he played 1B a bunch. How would we feel if he was a full-time 2B his whole career and finished with a ZR around -100 or -150? Even -200 wouldn't be out of the question with his defensive rating deterioration. His offensive numbers would be all earned while playing 2B, sure, but would it help his HoF case? Would two less seasons at 1B have helped his case?
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Pablo
These are the fun questions...alternately, if he's played his whole career at 1B, how would he feel to us?Rubaboo wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:54 amHow would we feel if he was a full-time 2B his whole career and finished with a ZR around -100 or -150? Even -200 wouldn't be out of the question with his defensive rating deterioration. His offensive numbers would be all earned while playing 2B, sure, but would it help his HoF case? Would two less seasons at 1B have helped his case?
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Pablo
Looking at 1B numbers, if Juan Pablo doesn't really fit...so if he hadn't ever played second base for some time, we probably wouldn't even be having a discussion about him...but since he played 2B for a little while, he's actually in the conversation.
Your call on what that means.
Your call on what that means.
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Pablo
The joy of excel is that it is fairly easy to plug and play data... Here is Juan Pablo as compared to all 1B currently in the hall.
Randy Weigand
Havana Sugar Kings/San Fernando Bears: 32-50 (1608-1481)
Des Moines Kernels: 52-
League Champion- 34
JL Champion- 34
FL Champion- 36, 37
JL Southern- 34
FL Pacific- 37, 39
Wild Card- 33, 35, 36, 40, 43
Havana Sugar Kings/San Fernando Bears: 32-50 (1608-1481)
Des Moines Kernels: 52-
League Champion- 34
JL Champion- 34
FL Champion- 36, 37
JL Southern- 34
FL Pacific- 37, 39
Wild Card- 33, 35, 36, 40, 43
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