Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Pablo

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Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Pablo

Post by RonCo » Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:09 am

Here's the place to talk about the career of: Juan Pablo
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Active Career: 2020-2035 (16 seasons)
2728 hits, 265 HR, 1087 RBI, .297/.353/.454 358 SB, 61.6 WAR
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Hall of Fame Metrics: (average HoF)
JAWS: 50.4 (58)
Black Ink: 0 (22)
Gray Ink: 116 (105)
HOF Standards: 51 (53)
HOF Monitor: 61 (123)
# Look up consistently good in a Wiki someplace and you should find a picture of Juan Pablo. It's actually hard to say he had a peak. Just guess 5 WAR and you're close. Of course, the problem therein is that means he had very little time as truly elite--a story borne out in his ink tests. One of the more interesting cases in a class full of stars.
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Pablo

Post by bcslouck » Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:18 am

If he was a better 2B, he's a lock. Even though he played there more, to me, he's a 1B. And that knocks him down for me. Damn fine hitter though.
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Pablo

Post by scottsdale_joe » Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:28 am

Four time best hitter.
That says something.
Does it say enough?
Dunno. Requires thought.
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Pablo

Post by 7teen » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:12 am

bcslouck wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:18 am
If he was a better 2B, he's a lock. Even though he played there more, to me, he's a 1B. And that knocks him down for me. Damn fine hitter though.
This!

If all of his hits came as a 2B, he'd be the all-time hits leader at the position. But he spent pretty much 50% of his career at 1B which I think knocks him out. He doesn't get in.
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Pablo

Post by RonCo » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:34 am

The position split is certainly something to keep in mind.
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Pablo

Post by scottsdale_joe » Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:24 pm

For some reason he reminds me a Seinfeld episode.
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Pablo

Post by RonCo » Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:51 am

Juan Pablo received 21% of the vote last season.
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Pablo

Post by RonCo » Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:15 pm

Moved up a touch to 24% of the vote last season. He has five years left.
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Pablo

Post by bcslouck » Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:12 am

Still a no for me. Same reason as above.
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Pablo

Post by niles08 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:19 am

This is a no from me. He is not a hall of Famer in my book. He is a good player, but not among the elite ever to play.
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Pablo

Post by usnspecialist » Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:44 am

Here is the stat breakdown of Juan Pablo compared to all 2nd basemen (both individually and against the total mean). Players are sorted by total JAWS score, and any bolded names are on the HOF ballot this year. The mean listed does NOT include anyone on the ballot, just guys who have actually been elected to the HOF.
2B 2039.PNG
Juan Pablo 2039.PNG
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Pablo

Post by Ted » Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:46 pm

So Pablo actually looks a LOT better than I thought, but then I remember that he was a 1B a LOT, and his numbers wouldn't be as green compared to that group. Fred? Insight?
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Pablo

Post by 7teen » Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:23 pm

As a 2B, he's a lock. As a 1B, he's questionable. Wouldn't say he's a hard No compared to some guys that are in already.
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Pablo

Post by JimBob2232 » Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:36 pm

I'd say yes. If you are a counting stats person, there are only 2 players with more hits that are not in the HOF. The fact that he played part of his career at 2B helps. 4 time zimmer helps (+112 ZR at 1B). A little bit of speed. A little bit of power. I think he tips the scales and gets in.

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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Pablo

Post by bcslouck » Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:43 pm

Still a no from me.
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Pablo

Post by Rubaboo » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:54 am

Ted wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:46 pm
So Pablo actually looks a LOT better than I thought, but then I remember that he was a 1B a LOT, and his numbers wouldn't be as green compared to that group. Fred? Insight?
I have nothing in particular to provide that hasn't already been stated. I love the guy to death, he's right up there on my 'Imaginary Characters who I have Man Crushes on' list and in my obviously intensely biased opinion he deserves to be in.

The only thing I find interesting is that people are deciding he's a no because he played 1B a bunch. How would we feel if he was a full-time 2B his whole career and finished with a ZR around -100 or -150? Even -200 wouldn't be out of the question with his defensive rating deterioration. His offensive numbers would be all earned while playing 2B, sure, but would it help his HoF case? Would two less seasons at 1B have helped his case?
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Pablo

Post by RonCo » Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:16 am

Rubaboo wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:54 am
How would we feel if he was a full-time 2B his whole career and finished with a ZR around -100 or -150? Even -200 wouldn't be out of the question with his defensive rating deterioration. His offensive numbers would be all earned while playing 2B, sure, but would it help his HoF case? Would two less seasons at 1B have helped his case?
These are the fun questions...alternately, if he's played his whole career at 1B, how would he feel to us?
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Pablo

Post by RonCo » Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:21 am

Looking at 1B numbers, if Juan Pablo doesn't really fit...so if he hadn't ever played second base for some time, we probably wouldn't even be having a discussion about him...but since he played 2B for a little while, he's actually in the conversation.

Your call on what that means.
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Pablo

Post by RonCo » Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:23 am

Fixed the link in the OP
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Pablo

Post by usnspecialist » Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:44 am

The joy of excel is that it is fairly easy to plug and play data... Here is Juan Pablo as compared to all 1B currently in the hall.
1B Juan Pablo 2039.PNG
Juan Pablo 1B 2039.PNG
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