Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Juan Jose Ornelas

[RonCo]

Here's the place to talk about the career of: Juan Jose Ornelas

Starting Pitcher

Active Career: 2021-2035 (15 seasons)
188-134, 3.64 ERA, 2668 K, 65.4 WAR
Nebraska Award: 2031
Zimmer Diamond Glove Award: 2023, 2026, 2031
5-Time All-Star

Hall of Fame Metrics: (average HoF)
JAWS: 57.7 (72)
Black Ink: 22 (34)
Gray Ink: 182 (162)
HOF Standards: 37 (49)
HOF Monitor: 124 (125)
# Combined with Nelson Ramirez, Ornelas made the match to one of the most powerful 1-2 duos in the league for many years. Led the league in wins in 2022, and 2031, and in WAR in 2028 and 2031. A graceful athlete, he could also field his position, which is often an under-appreciated talent.

[bcslouck]

He's close for sure.

[7teen]

Some very very good players for discussion for sure.

I'm starting to think I'm more picky than most. I prefer small halls over larger ones.

[RonCo]

For my sensibilities, of the two Birmingham/San Antonio guys, Nelson Ramirez has the stronger case.

I like that we're getting to guys I actually lived with a bit, though.

[bcslouck]

I think he's close, but he'll be down on my list with all the players coming up. The HOF metrics are pretty good, but some of the counting stats aren't the best. Hall of Very Good more than likely.

[scottsdale_joe]

I think maybe not.

[7teen]

I think maybe not.

I feel like I've gotten my 300+ post count taken care of for the 2036 season today.....

[scottsdale_joe]

I think maybe not.

I feel like I've gotten my 300+ post count taken care of for the 2036 season today.....

[RonCo]

I think maybe not.

I feel like I've gotten my 300+ post count taken care of for the 2036 season today.....

Only about 13%.

[usnspecialist]

the pitching version of mike love for me. Thought long and hard but voted no this time around. Could change in the future though.

[RonCo]

Ornelas received 28% of the ballot last year.

[RonCo]

Ornelas received 24% of the vote last year. He has five seasons left on the ballot.

[bcslouck]

Still close. I can't remember what I voted previously.

[RonCo]

I think he was kind of my last guy in on the ballot last year...I suspect I'll vote for him again. Probably better than his numbers, having played on a set of not great teams during his prime years. This is a thing I think makes voting tough. If Ornelas had his same base performance, but had pitched on Vegas Juggernauts, he's probably have 240-250 wins rather than 188. We're moderately good sometimes at removing credit for wins (saves, RBI, etc.) because the guy played on a good team, but we struggle to add back the value that a guy's counting numbers got "hit" by playing for struggling teams.

During his career, Ornelas played on only four teams that were .500 or better, and along the way he registered a 188-134 record.

His certainly is an interesting case.

[niles08]

This is a tough one for me which typically means I will be voting no. Players who get elected should be very close to no brainers.

[usnspecialist]

Here is the stat breakdown of Juan Jose Ornelas compared to all starting pitchers on the ballot this year (both individually and against the total mean). Players are sorted by total JAWS score.The mean listed does NOT include anyone on the ballot, just guys who have actually been elected to the HOF (and are not named Steve Nebraska).

[RonCo]

Ornelas received 25% of the vote last season. He has three seasons left.

[RonCo]

Ornelas received 29 % of the vote last season. He has one more left.

[aaronweiner]

Nelson Ramirez was mind-bogglingly obvious.