Hall of Fame Candidate Tread: Maxwell Weiss, Jr.

[RonCo]

Here's the place to talk about the career of: Maxwell Weiss, Jr.

Catcher

Active Career: 2010-2028 (19 seasons)
2,422 hits, 380 HR, 1,379 RBI, .275/.327/.464, 3 SB, WAR: 58.7
2-Time Pucket Golden Bat Winner
4-Time All-Star


Hall of Fame Metrics: (average HoF)
JAWS: 46.2 (44)
Black Ink: 4 (22)
Gray Ink: 42 (105)
HOF Standards: 47 (53)
HOF Monitor: 95 (123) ### Weiss, Jr. had a solid and long career split fiarly evenly between six franchises. Oddly notable for the fact that his value (WAR) seemed to grow as he got older--building most of his WAR after the age of 30 including an amazing 7.6 WAR after he turned 40. How many guys can you say "if he'd been better as a younger player he's be a shoo-in" about?

[scottsdale_joe]

Ah, 7.6 total after 40; had me confused for a second.
Deserves some consideration because he's a catcher.
Those numbers for a, say, left fielder wouldn't do it.
On the fence.

[RonCo]

I raised my assessment after looking at him more closely. Yes, those numbers for a catcher are pretty solid. And I admit I love that upside down career growth. Very unique. Still on the fence, by likely to vote him higher up now.

[bpbrooksy]

He has more WAR than three catchers who are already in the Hall, but none of whom I would have voted in myself. Like Joe said, might get in for his position.

[JimBob2232]

Its really the catcher angle here. High on my ballot, but might not make it.

[RonCo]

Bumping these threads because there will be voting again earlier than you think!

[bcslouck]

Agree with the others. He may need a few years, but I think he gets in.

[RonCo]

Yeah, spending some time on him, if we get a straight ballot I probably vote a yes for a bit and see how he does. If we're still ranking them, I'll have to think a bit more. I love the unique profile of aging like wine. Two Pucketts say he was at the top of his position for some time. His defensive metrics don't blow me away, but look perhaps a bit above average through much of his career. Really interesting candidate.

[usnspecialist]

Would love to hear the reasoning for anyone who split the votes between Weiss and Juan Castillo. They have incredibly similar numbers at the same position.

[RonCo]

It's an interesting comparison. Castillo was a better actual catcher (better defensive numbers and a Zimmer). And Castillo won 4 Pucketts and was an All-Star six times--twice what Weiss accomplished. While the numbers sound similar, Castillo played two fewer years. Castillo's career OBP was gently better, and is SLG was noticeably stronger. So in the rankings, to me, Castillo is clearly above Weiss.

That said, perhaps there are ballpark factors or something else to take into account?

[RonCo]

Weiss received 32% of the vote last ballot.

[Ted]

It would be nice to see him get a bit more traction this year. I didn't value him as highly until last year when I really started to look at catchers and realized the bar is lower than I had thought.

[usnspecialist]

It would be nice to see him get a bit more traction this year. I didn't value him as highly until last year when I really started to look at catchers and realized the bar is lower than I had thought.

But is he better than Hurley Reyes, Robert jowers or Jesse wright?

[Ted]

Reyes is an interesting comp. He's a marginally worse hitter than Weiss, but more power. Played about 100 fewer games, similar WAR. I have a hard time looking at his numbers, and calling him a HOFer. But I have the same problem with Weiss to start with. Then I look at the catchers in the Hall and again realize the bar is just lower. And I'm stuck in a loop. Should we have inducted like 4 more catchers by now? If you vote for Weiss, I think you have to assume we should have. THat'sa lot of not so impressive for a corner OF or 1B batting lines to put in the hall, but catchers are just a different animal. You can go round and round on this. For now, I'm voting for Weiss.

As far Wright and Jowers, why are you bring up a pitcher and a 3B unless you are poking fun at the time old argument of "This player I believe is a Hall of Famer didn't get in. I still believe he's a hall of famer, but because I'm salty about it, I''m not voting for other similar players." Always good to compound our mistakes.

[Ted]

I just realized that Chris compares every player to Jowers and Wright when I was reviewing these (probably because he is very familiar with their careers). I have no idea whether or not he thinks they deserve to be in, and my above comment is not a criticism of him. It is perfectly reasonable to use players who didn't get in as a bar. I was only poking fun at the old dinosaur baseball writers argument of "My guy didn't get in so no one gets in. Nyahhhh!" There used to be way too much of that shit.

[usnspecialist]

As far Wright and Jowers, why are you bring up a pitcher and a 3B unless you are poking fun at the time old argument of "This player I believe is a Hall of Famer didn't get in. I still believe he's a hall of famer, but because I'm salty about it, I''m not voting for other similar players." Always good to compound our mistakes.

You hit the nail on the head there.

[RonCo]

Weiss received 34% of the vote last year. He has one more season remaining on the ballot.

[Ted]

Sigh. I really think we should be putting these guys in. But oh well. We're going to not elect any catchers until Hinson retires. Hank Brewer has a shot.

[felipe]

He was never an elite guy that managers ‘had to have’

Close but no scholes

[bcslouck]

I wonder if he would of still been productive into his 40's if he would of started sooner. Wasn't a starting C until he was 26. I still think he should be in.