Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Lawrence Columbus LaLoosh

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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Lawrence Columbus LaLoosh

Post by RonCo » Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:28 am

And, believe me...I love the whole concept that is Sandy Koufax.
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Lawrence Columbus LaLoosh

Post by bschr682 » Sat Mar 14, 2020 4:25 pm

Not a fan of what if argument in general. If Laloosh had tried throwing 300 innings a season my what if is that his career would have been even shorter and instead of a debate it would be a resounding no.
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Lawrence Columbus LaLoosh

Post by RonCo » Sat Mar 14, 2020 4:43 pm

Yes, what-if are too full of questions to carry big meaning, but they do give you a couple perspectives to look through. I mean, Koufax got hurt, too. That's why his inclusion in the Hall is so interesting, really. His career numbers don't blind you relative to others because his career was so short. If LaLoosh threw 300 innings he may well have been hurt earlier. But if he threw 300 innings a year and didn't get hurt until the end, he'd be in Koufax's territory.

The point is that there are valid parallels.

I mean, go the other way. If Sandy Koufax had thrown in modern times, he'd not have posted 9 and 10 WAR a season as he did in his peak usage periods. So would he have made the Hall if he still got hurt at the same point of his career?
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Lawrence Columbus LaLoosh

Post by RonCo » Sat Mar 14, 2020 5:27 pm

Posting over from a Slack conversation, since it is relevant...

Joe - Boise 2:59 PM
Ron, would you vote Cannon for the Hall if his career ended right now?
RonCo-YS9 3:01 PM
Probably. But the LaLoosh/Cannon comparison also has to take into account that Cannon has two Landis championships in his column....and to be clear, too, his performance in the post season has been better than LaLoosh's, so that comparison is semi-valid.
Joe - Boise 3:01 PM
to an extent…only reason to compare are the Nebraskas. different career arcs, different type pitchers and stats, and the Landis thing, as you mentioned
RonCo-YS9 3:02 PM
Cannon's numbers are sightly better, and his narrative is stronger. To carry over from the forum...Koufax is in the hall because of who Sandy Koufax was, for example. Yes, his numbers while he played were blazing, but his career wasn't very long in comparison. But you take him out of the Hall and I'll be screaming a hissy fit.

It's arguable that Cannon is now in that category.

Koufax won only 165 games, after all. And to be honest, he was pretty terrible at times for his first four or five seasons. The Dodgers only kept him on the roster because they were forced to by the "bonus baby" rule.

Hopefully we wont have to answer that question, though. I'd say Cannon has another 40+ wins left in him. Maybe more. At 230 wins in this day and age, I think he's about as locky as a lock can get as a projection.

Obviously, a big injury right now puts him into a that gray area of conversation, though.

But I think three Nebraska awards makes a serious conversation warranted.

Here is the list of players with three or more Nebraska Awards (per a quick scan of the Unified History):

Steve Nebraska 14 - HOF
Mark Bobovnik 5 - HOF
Josh Riles 5 - HOF
Jay Lee 5 - HOF
Ricardo Diaz 4 - HOF
Mike Swanson 4 - HOF
Larry Lasalle 3 - HOF
Christopher Stoller 3 - HOF
Michael Strathallan 3 - HOF
Allan Izat 3 - HOF
Dan Cannon 3 - Active
Lawrence Columbus LaLoosh 3 - Retired

Enrique Gomez 3 - HOF
Nelson Ramirez 3 - HOF

Realize there are more teams, hence more pitcher competition, in the league since 2029, also.

As a counting stat, # of Nebraska Awards is a pretty good one.
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Lawrence Columbus LaLoosh

Post by Lane » Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:01 pm

I'm much more likely to give the pitchers with high peak/less longevity some leeway in HOF voting. He's a yes for me. Just too dominant to pass on.
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Lawrence Columbus LaLoosh

Post by RonCo » Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:49 pm

Be Like Stephen.
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Lawrence Columbus LaLoosh

Post by usnspecialist » Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:46 am

so i was updating my HOF spreadsheets i went through and calculated WAR7 for all of the HOFers as well as some of the potential candidates. Since LaLoosh (as discussed) is pretty much pinning his entire candidacy on his dominant peak i thought it would be interesting to compare his peak to some of his peers (to give a more fair comparison between eras).

Arthur Dempster 48.0
Dan Cannon 46.4
Luis Gracia 43.8
Ken Walter 41.9
Mauro Flores 41.7
Alfredo Contreras 40.7
Egbert Behner 40.3
Cristobal Hernandez 40.2
Dave Martin 39.7
Lawrence LaLoosh 39.4
Jose Chavez 35.0
Cisco Morales 33.0
Jimmy Greenwood 31.8

So ya the idea of peak LaLoosh being a viable HOF candidate is pretty much gone unless you are willing to vote guys into the HOF based on 3-4 years, in which case there are a whole slew of other guys we need to look at (or you are willing to consider guys like Alfredo Contreras and Cristobal Hernandez for the HOF).
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Lawrence Columbus LaLoosh

Post by RonCo » Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:25 pm

Some thoughts on that here: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=33056#p187298
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Re: Hall of Fame Candidate Thread: Lawrence Columbus LaLoosh

Post by jiminyhopkins » Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:21 pm

jiminyhopkins wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:20 am
Haha, Lumpy is trying again. LOL
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